New Mono 1.2 Now Supports WinForms

smbarbour writes "The Mono project (the open-source .NET compatibility library acquired by Novell when Ximian was purchased) has released version 1.2. They are now including support for WinForms. Ars Technica has a detailed rundown on the new release. The Mono project supports Visual Basic.NET as well, so developers that use VB.NET now have the possibility of directly porting applications to Linux." From the article: "Relatively high memory consumption and performance bottlenecks are commonly perceived as being amongst Mono's most significant weaknesses. Some critics frequently refer to various performance issues to support arguments against broader adoption of Mono technology in open source projects, most notably within the GNOME community. The performance improvements in Mono 1.2 could potentially address such criticisms, but it is likely that a lot more work will be required before the problems are completely resolved."

So what?

[sproketboy]

Who uses this?

Great, even more ways for MS to kill it

[AuMatar]

So now not only do we have to wait for submarine patents on C# and the runtime, now they can hit us on anything in their API as well. Especially with the Novell deal, people ought to realize that MS is just waiting for a chance to use their patents against open source. This is turning a bad idea worse. Just say no to Mono.

.NET 3

[nurb432]

its not just an 'extension', its a vehicle to kill off pre XP machines.

Re:Very good!

[RealSurreal]

<Devil's advocate> Have you looked at job ads lately? Hundreds of VB(.net) jobs for every Python job. </Devil's advocate>

Here's a better suggestion...

[Chabil Ha']

Dump VB.NET in exchange for C#. You'll get more supporters on an open source system if you move to language that more closely resembles C, C++, Java. Sure they're compatible on a Windows box, but C# seems like a better choice between the two on Linux.

Re:Great, even more ways for MS to kill it

[debackerl]

Stop spreading FUD about patents. Microsoft will likely never attack because Novell could counter-attack using the Open Invention Network. If you never heard about OIN, just google for "Mono patent OIN". Also up to now Microsoft has never been hostile to this new implementation. Of course this does not mean they would never attack, but they know what would happen to them in that case. Also Mono take care of doing clean-room implementation to have a pretty clean implementation.

Re:Here's a better suggestion...

[thechronic]

One of the major points of the .NET framework is having multiple languages being able to compile to same bytecode. The implementation of Mono or .NET has nothing to do with which high-level languages utilize it, therefore dumping VB.NET over C# doesn't buy you anything. In fact, having more languages to choose from encourages development using Mono...and if you don't like VB or C# or managed C++, you can make your own language, as long as it can be described by the semantics of the CLR.

Re:Great, even more ways for MS to kill it

[Richard W.M. Jones]

Can someone please tell me, which patents is Microsoft alleging that Mono infriges? Patent numbers please, not general assertions or FUD.

Rich.

Re:Here's a better suggestion...

[Shados]

The "real" .NET framework supports C/C++, but also a total of, at last count, 44 languages (give or take a few since last i checked). Removing any of them really goes against the whole idea.

Re:Very good!

[Shados]

VB.NET isn't VB6. Its a totally different architecture, with a (rarely used, aside when porting apps) compatibility layer (not an emulator or anything, just stuff to make syntax work), and similar keywords. The language, constructs and syntax structure is so similar to other languages (especialy C#) that you can use javascript applets on the net to convert between the two

VB6 and previous were shitty. VB.NET is good stuff that looks shitty.

Re:Misleading title, support is still incomplete.

[ir]

That EXE file extension is a humourous anachronism on Unix. Now I know how the Mac people feel....

Re:So what?

[XMyth]

Properties (well that's how C# is better).

Re:Very good!

[EvanED]

You know, I'm a huge fan of Emacs... I use it as my primary editor, I'm running Emacs 22 from CVS with the Emacs Code Browser. But it might just be because I'm new at using ECB and Semantic and those types of tools, but I'd take a full-fledged IDE any day. I like being able to right click on an identifier and go right to its definition, and not have to worry that TAGS didn't understand what was going on, or that it was in a file that's almost the same but in a different directory. I haven't even figured out how to click on an include file and jump to it. (BTW, like I said, I'm new at this, and I haven't really found a good "here's how to set up this tool" page. It's mostly along the lines of a lot of Unix documentation where it almost seems like to understand what it says you already have to know what it's talking about. So if you know how to set it up so that I can do these things, please let me know. If you want, give me an email and I can give you more information about my setup.)

Let alone the other things that a good IDE will give you like refactoring support.

FUD

[oohshiny]

Microsoft has made it abundantly clear that when you implement the the ECMA stuff, and your own CLR, you are entering into a RAND agreement with Microsoft, and they have patents essential to the running of it:

It doesn't matter what Microsoft "makes clear", they are simply spreading FUD, and so are you. You don't enter into agreements by implementing a public standard. You may be infringing on their patents, but given the vast amount of prior art, it seems unlikely that Mono is infringing on any claim that would hold up. And Microsoft's statement of terms may not be satisfying, but a court would take it into account if there ever were a lawsuit.

And what's the alternative? Sun has many patents on Java, has actively defended their intellectual property against FOSS projects, and open source implementations need to implement the entire Java platform in order to be useful.

Mono, in contrast, is a separate implementation, under an open source license, based largely on its own APIs and libraries. Also, Microsoft's patents have been scrutinized in detail.

The situation may not be very satisfying, but for anybody wanting something faster than Python and higher level than C++, the choices come down to Java and C#. Technically, I think C# is superior, and at least for now, the legal situation surrounding it is also better than Java.

Re:So what?

[CableModemSniper]

Let me guess all your getters and setters did was set and get an instance var. What are the odds that the compiler, knowing you were using a getter/setter, and knowing that it didn't actually do anything, optimized away the function call overhead (that it couldn't optimize with your informal getters and setters)? Nope that can't be it, it must be that C# functions are extra-slow.

Re:Very good!

[Orion Blastar]

This is why open source does not catch on. The negative attitudes towards anyone different or trying to learn new things. The very things that show me I am dealing with sociopaths online that turned me away from learning open source technologies for the past decade.

I know Visual BASIC, Mono allows me to use Visual BASIC in Linux. So some open source sociopath tells me that I must learn Python because Visual BASIC sucks, so I respond in kind that me switching to Python like he uses would not be good for me economically due to the job situations. Now I got a sociopath like you calling me an idiot. Nice job, you set back the open source movement five years with your shitty attitude! People like you make me want to stay with Windows, and stay away from Linux Sociopaths like you.

Re:So what?

[nmb3000]

I know of nothing that I would consider an advantage in language design to Java over C#, and many advantages to C#.

Two things I can think of offhand that Java has an upper hand with are more powerful enums (here's an example [arstechnica.com]) and a much stronger Collections library (C# is notably lacking a Set collection).

However, as of late I certainly agree with you. I keep seeing "new" features in Java that it lacked until C# (especially 2.0) came out (though it's still missing some nice things like partial classes, passing-by-reference, and variable-length argument lists). Another example of why it's good to have options/competition. Personally, I find C# much more intuitive and easy to develop with than Java.

Re:So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Banshee is one of those really cool projects too.

Banshee is a Rhythmbox clone which uses twice as much memory and has bugs all over the place. The only reason Banshee exists is to _push_ more mono into gnome.

Re:So what?

[mabinogi]

> if it's something everyone thinks then you can call it a fact.
No, then it's a widely held opinion. But still an opinion.