Preparing for a Career in Robotics? 63
seanfast asks: "I just graduated from college with a B.S. in CompSci and a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. I am currently working full time, but I want to go back to school part time for my M.S. and specialize in AI or Robotics. Unfortunately, with my time schedule, and the extreme scarcity of a degree with either of those specializations being in my vicinity, I will most likely have to settle simply for a M.S. in CompSci with no specialization. If I want to work in the field of robotics and AI later on in life, what do I need to do in my current situation to prepare myself? Some have told me I need a strong mechanical engineering background, some have said I need a stronger software background, and some say I need to just tinker with stuff in my free time and not even worry about what they can teach you in school. Any advice, Slashdot?"
Lame cliché thread (Score:2, Funny)
How to Profit in Robotics (Score:4, Funny)
To have your robot withstand such destructive weapons you will have to study up on material science. Your robots exterior metals, plastics, and composites need to be top notch. You may want to create an cooling system for the electronic guts, but it may have to shut off and close vents when your robot is under attack. Stealth when not in populated areas, ordinance avoidance, and counter-measures should also be considered.
For AI your giant killer robot needs to be able to kill people, but it also needs to be able to collect protection money, and identify those who have paid protection money. Your urban navigation system needs to be able to avoid obstacles even while chasing down people who refuse to pay. Nothing says "don't pay me" like a giant toppled robot that can't get up. The most essential AI/mechanical problem may in fact be carrying customers to the nearest ATM machine without crushing them, but also without letting them escape.
Now for the economics. You really need to experimental with multiple business models once your robot is up and running - then see which is the most profitable. Maybe the most profits are in hanging around high income neighborhoods. Maybe a Paypal fund for an entire city - kind of like a telethon (once you reach $1 million no one in Des Moines will be killed). Remember though that once you hit a certain price people will be more likely to flee than pay - you may want to fund a phone survey to determine prices prior to operating in a certain location. Consider advertising - people unfamiliar with your product will flee with instinctual terror until they are aware of the commercial options.
Re:How to Profit in Robotics PLEASE MOD PARENT UP! (Score:1)
this is great
Re:How to Profit in Robotics (Score:2)
I prefer the converse. For 1 Billion dollars (I dream bigger) You'll take care of the middle east problem. For 1 Million dollars, you'll make sure that the cubs win the world series, no questions ask. For 1 Thousand dollars, that annoying dog that barks outside your window will get a free trip to at least 5 layers of atmosphere.
Remember, with my unique version, it's not terror
A Path Not Often Traveled (Score:5, Informative)
I can't give you advice on how to get into robotics because I never successfully did that. I worked with pioneer robots mounted with laptops and had the whole Aria package figured out. I studied all the white papers and took all the courses. I'm even getting my masters with a specialization in AI. What was my problem? I'm not sure, it was probably the fact that my grades were ~3.5 GPA out of 4.0 & I've never been published.
If you really love this topic and will settle for nothing less, then you have to be prepared to devout a lot of time to reading about everything out there and, yes as you mentioned, tinkering with things like JStick and real time microboards all the time. You need to be a master of forward & inverse kinematics and also have all the algorithms down pat.
I say this because people are not ready to hand over responsibilities to robots. You might cite NASA but their rigorous protocol of checking and double checking every tiny movement of their robots anything but artificial intelligence. Reason? High failure rate otherwise.
Today's robots leave a lot to desire. That might have changed since I last looked in the field but I can tell you that less than 5% of all computer scientists are lucky enough to work with robots (or unlucky enough) and I think an even smaller percentage get to develop for them. Maintenance is just as needed there as it is in any other software.
I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm trying to be realistic. I read I, Robot in fifth grade and it changed my life. Unfortunately, it only gave me the desire, not the rigorous technical background needed to put me in the few high percentage points of students.
You mention mechanical engineering but that implies robotics from scratch. If you're a computer science student, I advise you to treat the hardware as a blackbox and use the APIs to program for them. There is some cross over you will need to learn to program for arm or walking robotics but this is more theory of how your code should look to work the controllers. I guess if you want to design from scratch and make genuinely new physical robots, then you need not only a mechanical engineering background but also one in electrical engineering. I also foresee a lot of the signals moving from hardwired to wireless for simplicity so that would mean Fourier transforms, wavelets, & the like.
My suggestion is to hit Citeseer [psu.edu] for the free papers. Hit your college's IT site and try to get into the IEEE Computing document repository [computer.org]. They also have a special robotics division that you might find useful for creating contacts though I'm a member of it and that's never happened (you have to attend a lot of meetings). Look everywhere for material on the topic and see what other people did right and what other people did wrong. Have you ever heard of Robocup? Definitely read all the papers released about that and look into becoming active in your university's robotics lab.
Most importantly, keep yourself knowledgeable/marketable for conventional jobs in computer science because you really never know what's going to happen. Robotic development has a very limited market. The factory line robots are getting more and more reliable and it seems any biomimicked robotics are for purely entertainment value. I'm not intending to be mean when I say it, but there probably is no "career" solely in robotics. You've got to bus tables in the computer science world before you can prove yourself to the big dogs.
I now write web services and web applications. You have a romantic goal, I wish you the best of luck in a more exciting future.
Re:A Path Not Often Traveled (Score:3, Insightful)
If you've never been published, can we assume that you didn't do a master's thesis (opting to go the route of just taking classes instead)?
If that is the case, that is probably a HUGE strike against you. An MS in any field where you simply take classes will only look slightly better than a BS. However, if you do a thesis and get published, you give yourself a lot of room for leverage.
To the submi
Re:A Path Not Often Traveled (Score:1)
Re:A Path Not Often Traveled (Score:2)
Really, this is key. Look at string theory and global warming. You have to kiss butt with today's in-crowd until you at least have tenure, and maybe a Nobel Prize or similar.
To break ranks and get famous doing it, you'd better have some damn good proof that nobody can argue with. (like the doctor who gave himself an ulcer to prove that ulcers are bacterial)
Re:A Path Not Often Traveled (Score:1, Informative)
Geez, it's not that hard. (Score:2)
You should study real-time control (often done as a math or EE major) and embedded systems (often done as an EE major). Hmmm, how about getting an EE degree? Also, get to know Linux really well. Get to know VxWorks if you can find the opportunity.
Then there is the big thing you need to do: persistently apply for jobs in the field. Mostly you will be rejected with good reason, b
Re:Geez, it's not that hard. (Score:1)
Re:A Path Not Often Traveled (Score:3, Insightful)
But the point is, if this is something you truly want, you can g
Re:A Path Not Often Traveled (Score:1)
Studying robotics does not require a robot(s) (Score:1)
Actually studying A.I. does not need a robot so badly. I normally use a combination of player and the provided simulators, stage and gazebo for A.I. http://playerstage.sf.net/ [sf.net] . Stage is good for studying group behaviour(agents) and gazebo is 3d with physics which make it great for more precise robotics.
For robot vision like tasks i suggest aquiring a fisheye camera, sticking it to some mobile platform - a chair with wheels in the worst case - for avoiding shake and wandering with it around, recording a
AI probably not the way (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:AI probably not the way (Score:2)
In my experience a team that want to build a complex robot need really good experts in: mechanics, control, electronics, communication, machine vision, embedded programming, hard realtime kernel programming (we used Linux+RTAI with custom kernel modules for our robot).
YMMV
Both robotics and AI are still relatively young, so IMO they are still not ready to go together. Real advanced AI for the moment is only needed on compu
You already have specialization in A.I. (Score:1)
Depeding where this position is located will solve the problem of just getting an M.S. in CompSci or a more specialized degree.
The only way to go ... (Score:3, Informative)
If I want to work in the field of robotics and AI later on in life, what do I need to do in my current situation to prepare myself?
If that is really the only thing you want to do (i.e., life-long passion and all that), then go to CMU. AFAIK, there is no better robotics program than the one at Carnegie-Mellon.
Re:The only way to go ... (Score:2)
Re:The only way to go ... (Score:3, Informative)
I nearly went for an MSci in Robotics... (Score:1)
Then a bit of further research revealed there were literally fuck all jobs in the field, and the univeristy s star Robotics student had only managed to get a job a Stationery factory. The same company that provided all of the University's stationery, I might add.
I'm now about to embark on a Degree in Conservation Biology and Ecology. There may be just as many jobs (read: zero), but at least I'll be doing something worthwhile.
Unless you are deadly serious and know you can
Move to Japan. (Score:3, Interesting)
I ran one of the DARPA Grand Challenge teams, Team Overbot [overbot.com]. I'm not sure there really are "careers in robotics". Of our best young people, one is now running a hedge fund, and the other is working for a financial derivatives firm in New York. Neither of them could find anything in robotics with a big payoff.
With 12 million illegal immigrants, the US doesn't need robots. Japan, though...
Re:Move to Japan. (Score:2)
Depends. Are you good at bending things?
Then there are these folks [srl.org], but I don't think they pay anything.
Re:Move to Japan. (Score:2)
+5, insightful.
Well, not strictly true perhaps -- there are tasks for robots that even immigrants won't (or at least, shouldn't ought to have to) do. Bomb disposal, reactor leak inspection, and so forth. But don't buy into the myth that there are jobs that "Americans won't do" either -- that conveniently avoids the other half of the equation: "at the wages offered". Raise the offered wages and you'll find takers.
Raising the wages (and I don'
lots of robot jobs (Score:2)
1. enlist in the army as an intelligence analyst
2. get your TOP SECRET clearance
3. enjoy, um, visiting exotic places
4. quit the army
5. apply to Boeing, Ratheon, Lockheed, General Dynamics...
Hideho from Japanese technology incubator! (Score:2)
As to the availability of ac
zerg (Score:2)
If you evar decide on a plan of action, then please share.
i work in robotics (Score:4, Informative)
regardless of your chosen speciality, you're going to want to get to be really good at math. in particular, linear algebra, calculus (multivariate), trig, analytic geometry, and stats/probabilities (in particular, bayesian thinking). also make sure you are really solid on forward and inverse kinematics. finally, an understanding of communication systems will be incredibly useful.
concurrent with that, see if you can get a job working in the field. drop me an email and i can get you in touch with my company's recruiting/hr people (we qualified 5th at GC2 and we do a lot of UAS an UGV work). of the r&d staff, about 17% hold ph.d.s and over 90% hold at least one master's degree (there are several folks with multiple m.sc. degrees).
finally: good luck! i know i couldn't believe that i'm actually being paid to play with the toys and do cool stuff with them
Get an Engineering Degree (Score:2)
Go get yourself a degree in systems engineering. Pure AI research is within the realm of computer science and if that's what you want to do go study there. Robitics involve sensors and actuators, control systems, signal processing, embedded systems design, computer vision and image processing, and of course AI. None of those are outside the realm of engineering but pure th
Not CompSci (Score:3, Informative)
Then there's adaptive robotics, closer to what people in general think of when they hear about robots. Adaptive, self-reliant systems perhaps capable of interaction with humans and able to get about in the world on the worlds' terms, not on their own. And there, I'm afraid, a CompSci degree is not going to cut it.
Doing real adaptive robotics is a hard problem. It requires a lot of different subspecialities, from mechanical engineering to learning theory to neuroscience. You may have physicists, linguists, mathematicians, behavioral psychologists and neurobiologists all on the same team. And most of them will know AI and programming well enough already. It would have been a lot easier for you had you focused on on a field like the ones above rather than CompSci, to be frank.
What you likely need is to be accepted at a PhD program with robotics somewhere; preferably one that lets - or requires - you widen your field to really learn one of the needed specialities as you go along. Since adaptive robotics is very experimental still, there really is no good training outside a PhD program, and nobody is going to take you seriously unless you have that doctorate anyhow.
Re:Not CompSci (Score:1)
Getting a degree in robotics... (Score:2)
mindstorms is right (Score:2)
Prepare for the future. (Score:2)
What should one do if one wants to prepare for a technical field that is in its infancy and changing so rapidly that any current technology is likely to be obsolete by the time one develops sufficient skills to create real applications?
Answer: study math. Math is the fundamental basis for all technical fields. Math skills never become obsolete, technical skills are obsolete the moment you learn them
Re:Prepare for the future. (Score:1)
Lots of robotics jobs... just know where to look (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Lots of robotics jobs... just know where to loo (Score:1)
iRobot has 40 job openings! (Score:1)
Find people doing things you like (Score:2)
Personally, I'd start with a visit to your nearest Robotics Society [google.com] and have a chat
AI/robotics is not cool...? (Score:2)
Skip the MS (Score:2)
If you plan on going into AI, you may as well skip the MS and go straight to a Ph. D. Lots of people don't realize they can do this, though it will probably put you at a disadvantage if you apply to very selective schools.
AI is very theoretical, and you will be better prepared for work in this area with a depth-oriented degree such as the Ph. D. You'll also get the feel of what it's like to do research in theoretical Computer Science, if you haven't already. Since many positions in AI involve research on
It's a more general question - (Score:2)
If you consider yourself someone who can function well in a job interview, then IMHO the specifics of your credentials matter less. Aim f
What TYPE of robotics? (Score:2)
If you're hopinh to get into AI with robotics you're probably looking at spending the next 10 years either as a student or researcher for a large university (CMU has been mentioned but others work too) and the degree you get should be based on having a well rounded knowledge of robotics (your PhD and research will establish a specialty).
If you'd like to d
Here's what has helped me the most.... (Score:1)
On all the Robotics projects I was involved with, the first thing that was needed was to get the mechanics working. Most of my work during this phase was working with the mechanical engineers helping them to model the kinematics. Being able to talk with and understand mechanical engineers was important.
After the mechanical problems were solve
General Advice (Score:2)
The goalposts have moved. (Score:1, Insightful)
Take Chess as an example. Back in the 60s and 70s it was thought of as the cutting edge of A.I research. But when I was studying many moons ago it had long been realised that the ability to win a chess game did not help you solve other complex problems.
Self driving cars were considered science fiction ten years a
A PhD? (Score:1)
What I think (Score:1)
Robotics isn't a real subject (Score:2)
The mathematics you need to be able to do trajectory planning, joint kinematics, machine vision and all the other types of transformations are described in J.J.Craig's book (ISBN 0201095289) [barnesandnoble.com]. This is the application of stuff that has been known for fifty years. The
Just do it yourself (Score:1)
Robotics, renewable energy, innovative recyclable waste technologies are just what this country needs. These problems will likely be solved in time with innovative ideas that are sexy, neat, and astonishingly practical. Few companies are actively pursuing this type of goal. Those companies that are pursuing idealistic ventures are run by people who are basically part genius/nutcase/idealist/dreamer and are usually interested