World of Spectrum gets a Visit from the IDSA 258
Dasaan writes "the
World of Spectrum
, a site that legally archives old Sinclair Spectrum games, has been accused of distributing copyrighted material by the
IDSA
.
The list of games supposedly being offered on the site include titles such as Soldier Of Fortune and Barbarian. And a quick search of the site shows that these titles are indeed being offered, however they are the original versions that were released many years ago and have now been officially made legal to supply by the current copyright owners." Their correspondence is also available.
Eh? (Score:5, Informative)
Same for the BSA and others. They carry no weight, they can represent who they want. its in the courtroom that matters.
Re:Eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that for a small organization or a single person running a site, telling these companies to "fuck off" will end up putting them out of business. They'll drag your ass to court and you'll have to spend money on lawyer fees and court costs whether you are guilty or not. That's why a lot of times the mere threat of these is enough to get someone to roll over and shut down. Would you really want to deal with contacting a lawyer, shelling out money to retain them, preparing a legal defense, etc.? Most people don't since we're not comprised of professional lawyers, but the BSA and IDSA is. They have nothing better to do than make your life a living hell. Yet another reason why we should eliminate all lawyers.
Counter Sue? (Score:2)
Frivolous law suits are illegal, aren't they?
I'm sure a class action lawsuit with some high powered lawyers would put these people back in their place... oh wait.. the lawyers benefit more when the frivolous lawsuits are taking place... Hmmmm
Re:Counter Sue? (Score:3, Informative)
There should be a way to counter sue for damages and recoup all your losses to defend yourself against the ludicrous case in the first place.
Frivolous law suits are illegal, aren't they?
Technically, there are laws against frivolous lawsuits, but what they are and what you have to do to trigger them vary from country to country. In the US (where IDSA is located) it is very very hard to prove that a lawsuit was illegal. World Of Spectrum is in the Netherlands, which might have more protection, but who knows what jurisdiction any lawsuit will end up in this case.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, the above should not be interpreted as legal advice.
Re:Counter Sue? (Score:2)
There ARE two sides to this issue, and the people on the opposite side from us are just as rabid in their self-righteousness as we are.
Think more 'generic' law suits (Score:2)
If the suit legit, then of course I don't agree with the counter sue..
Piracy for profit is bad, and should prosecuted. Not aruging with that one, but in this specific case they have the permission to distribute, so this would fall under the ability to counter sue to recover any costs as far as I'm concerned.
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
it's still worth it.
Woohoo! (Score:2)
Yeah! That'll leave world full of psychopaths with us geeks building road-warrioresque ORVs and maintaining the oil rigs...
Abuse denied? (Score:2, Funny)
Since the link doesn't work (Score:5, Informative)
Reading that link you realize that essentially they are PRO-IDSA.....
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:5, Informative)
Reading that link you realize that essentially they are PRO-IDSA.....
That's certainly not true. Whilst the WoS team (of which I may be considered to be a part) and in fact, a significant proportion of the ZX Spectrum emulation community will respect the decisions of a few companies not to have their work distributed, the way the IDSA is going about it (trawling the web and sending off threatening letters based on filenames) is completely out of line.
Maybe we should try a sting? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is this really how they are doing it? If so, can anyone post the list of file names that they are looking for?
If we can get the file names, we can easily set up a sting operation. We just invite all our readers with web sites to create dummy files with those names, perhaps in a
It hardly seems likely (or even vaguely reasonable) that anyone could own the rights to a file name. I typically create hundreds (sometimes thousands) of file names each day during software testing. Right now I'm working on a web site, and a test I'm running is creating roughly 100 files per second. If I have to check for possible copyright infringement of every file name, the job becomes utterly impossible, since what was a 10-second test run will take years.
If companies are really making copyright claims based merely on file names, we should stop this practice right now. Anyone want to help?
Re:Maybe we should try a sting? (Score:4, Informative)
Is this really how they are doing it? If so, can anyone post the list of file names that they are looking for?
In all honesty, don't know. However, they certainly didn't appear to do much more than that. Getting as far as WoS's database entry for Soldier of Fortune [worldofspectrum.org] (one click away from the game listings) clearly shows that it's not the modern game.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, that's the most clear-cut case; some of them (eg 007) I don't believe the IDSA are representing the copyright holders to the versions on WoS, even if we don't have permission to distribute them. Others (Mario, Frogger, etc) the IDSA may be representing the copyright holders, at least for some of the versions. If the IDSA responds to Martijn's reply, then action may be taken with respect to those games.
K.H. (Score:3, Informative)
From: dmca@idsa.com.no.junk.mail To:abuse@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Berne Convention - Demand for Immediate Take Down - Notice of
Infringing Activity - Reference#: 922932 Date: 14 February, 2003 5:23 PM
Interactive Digital Software Association 1211 Connecticut Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20036 USA Attention: Piracy Enforcement - DMCA Officer
Telephone: 202-223-2400 Fax: 202-223-2401 E-mail: dmca@idsa.com Friday, February 14, 2003
Dear abuse@xxxxxxxxxx,
I am an authorized representative of the Interactive Digital Software Association ("IDSA"), which represents the intellectual property interests of almost thirty companies that publish interactive games for video game consoles, personal computers, handheld devices and the Internet.
IDSA is providing this letter of notification to make xxxxxxxxxx aware of material available via its network or system that infringes the exclusive copyright and trademark rights of one or more IDSA members. This notice is addressed to you as an agent of xxxxxxxxxx for purposes of receiving notifications of claimed infringement. We hereby affirm that the IDSA is authorized to act on behalf of the IDSA members whose exclusive copyright rights we believe to be infringed as described herein.
Based on the information obtained by IDSA that is provided in this e-mail's attachments, IDSA has a good faith belief that the Internet site found at http://www.worldofspectrum.org/ infringes the rights of one or more IDSA members by offering for download one or more unauthorized copies of one or more game products protected by copyright, including, but not limited to: 007 Barbarian Donkey Kong Frogger Mario Pac Man Soldier Of Fortune
Through the Berne Convention and other international treaties covering intellectual property rights, we believe that our members' rights in such games are entitled to the full protection of the intellectual property laws of your country. The unauthorized copies of such game product[s] appearing on, or made available through, such site are listed and/or identified on such Internet site by their titles, variations thereof or depictions of associated artwork (any such game titles, copies, listings and/or other depictions of, or references to, any contents of such game product, are hereinafter referred to as "Infringing Material"). Based on the information at its disposal on 2/7/2003 6:49:39 PM GMT, IDSA believes that the statements herein accurately describe the infringing nature and status of the Infringing Material.
Accordingly, IDSA hereby requests xxxxxxxxxx to immediately remove or disable access to the Infringing Material at the URL address identified above.
Should you have questions, please contact the IDSA at the above listed mailing address or by replying to this email. Please also include the above noted Reference Number in the subject line of all email correspondence. We thank you for your cooperation in this matter. Your prompt response is appreciated.
Regards,
Robert L. Hunter, IV
Interactive Digital Software Association
Note: The information transmitted in this Notice is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.
From: Martijn van der Heide
To: dmca@idsa.com.no.junk.mail
Subject: Your reference #922932
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:54:02 +0100 (CET)
Your reference: #922932
Dear Mr Hunter,
Thank you for your email dated 14th February 2003, 5:23PM CET. The World of Spectrum archive site at is a software preservation site, archiving software for the classic microcomputer, the Sinclair ZX Spectrum.
We strive to gain permission for redistribution for all software in the archive from the original publisher, and if the publisher no longer exists, from the original author. We publish all such permits on our site, and where such permission has been rescinded by either the publisher and/or author, we comply and remove the affected titles from the archive. Our copyrights policy is available in a dedicated section of the site, the Copyrights section, at
To this end, we take all allegations that we are carrying software to which we do not have permission very seriously, however, the list of titles provided to us by yourselves is unfortunately somewhat vague, and we believe there may in fact be 'false positives', with titles in our archive of old software originally made during a period between 1982 to 1992 matching currently available software. An example is the title 'Soldiers of Fortune', for which we have explicit formal permission from the publisher Firebird Software Ltd (a label from British Telecom). If there is indeed clear and present proof that the titles you specifically list are present in our archive, we will be happy to remove those titles to endeavour to retain the goodwill we have in the industry and our position as being responsive to creators requests. To this end, could you please provide further information on the titles you have listed, such as publisher (or relevant IDSA member), release date, platform and so on, so that we can properly investigate and expedite this request.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Yours sincerely,
Martijn van der Heide
--
Martijn van der Heide
Owner of the official world archive for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum
The World of Spectrum, http://www.worldofspectrum.org/
-------------
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:5, Interesting)
They have *every* Spectrum game I hold copyright on up there. No-one has ever asked for permission to distribute and I've not given it.
Please accept the apologies of the WoS team for that; we have made good faith efforts to contact copyright holders of all Spectrum programs we know about, as can been seen from the lists available [worldofspectrum.org].
If you do wish your games to be removed from WoS, mail mia (at) worldofspectrum.org and they will be removed ASAP. However, I would like to take this opportunity to ask for your permission to distribute your programs from WoS. Contact me or WoS if you would like any further details.
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:2)
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:3, Informative)
Pragmatism: it would also result in a site which wasn't actually a useful resource. Martijn van der Heide (WoS's maintainer) has tried contacting every copyright holder we know of, and the vast majority of these queries have simply never been replied to.
For many games, there's also the problem that nobody actually knows who the copyright holder is: the game was produced by some small company who went bust, who now owns the rights has vanished into the mists of times.
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:4, Interesting)
Dear Copyright Holder:
We are offering your works for download on the internet for free. If you would like to Opt-Out of this arrangement, please let us know by clicking the link below. Otherwise we will continue to offer this service, even though we don't actually have your permission.
Cheers,
The WoS team.
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:5, Informative)
I think that's a rather harsh way of putting things. The contact e-mails which are sent are rather more detailed than that, and attempt to explain why we're doing this as well.
As I said above, the decision to distribute 'non-denied' games is a pragmatic one; we've never tried to claim that what we're doing is 100% whiter than white legal, but we are making an effort on this front. From a personal point of view, that matters a lot to me.
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:3, Interesting)
If you couldn't contact the copyright holders, then they clearly *did not* give express permission for you to freely distribute their stuff. You can't just assume that their silence means their agreement.
Imagine the fuss if I "tried" (not very hard) to contact the author of some GPL'd stuff, and after a week with no reply decided that they had agreed to my putting it all out as public domain, sans copying.txt!
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:2, Insightful)
Guess whose life is easier.
Re:Since the link doesn't work (Score:3, Insightful)
Enjoy the company of your dusty floppy disks, and sleep well knowing that you deprived a hobbyist of a trifle of enjoyment just because you could.
Inevitable really... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bit of a pain for WoS to have to respond to this kind of rubbish, but it's obviously sent out to intimidate (since when did the Berne Convention have anything to say about "Immediate Take Down").
Re:Inevitable really... (Score:2)
There was no "if this letter was received in error" or "if we've fscked up, then sorry" - just a threat to take down the unverified "offending" material immediately.
I don't think they realise the damage this does to their reputation and, conversely, the power that a positive and insightful IP enforcement body could have.
Interns? (Score:3, Interesting)
If they're not just using a robot search program that go through their database of titles.
Another site that got attacked. [back2roots.org]
mmmm. Interns....
Re:Interns? (Score:2)
IANAL, but can't they charge the people at IDSA for perjury or fraud? I'm sure sending false DMCA complaints is against some law. Don't they have to write "under penalty of perjury" somewhere when they file a DMCA complaint??? At the very least, these guys should be able to sue IDSA for slander / libel.
Until the victims of false DMCA complaints do something, these companies will keep it up...
Re:Interns? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Interns? (Score:2)
What if it was sent to their hosting service / ISP / upstream provider? From what I understand, most DMCA complaints are sent to the organization who runs the network (for practical reasons) instead of the person who is accused.
Why o Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why are copyright owners tracking down such things which wouldn't get pennies nowadays (they were selling off the old cassettes for 10p long ago).
Only thing I can think of is that some people are realising the value of not so much the games, but the ideas. Things like Sabre Wulf is one of the old Ultimate franchises which can be updated, and its franchises which sell nowadays. A lot of licenses tied up in those games too (I think Ocean owned the franchise for Batman for a long time too), maybe thats what they are trying to protect.
Or maybe they're just going to sell them all back to us again, like nintendos been doing with the GBA.
I suspect the former... I mean, have you played some of those games recently? While they had value at the time, they are not up to par graphics wise to something like the GBA...
Re:Why o Why? (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is with organisations like IDSA which stumble across websites offering games and then automatically assume there must have been a copyright violation.
The article explicitly states that the website in question had already obtained permission from the copyright holders to redistribute the material...
Re:Why o Why? (Score:2, Informative)
Note that Rare was recently purchased by Microsoft. Not very likely that they'll release their old Speccy titles for public use.
A ner Alien8 would be fun though...
Re:Why o Why? (Score:2, Informative)
>Note that Rare was recently purchased by Microsoft. Not very likely that they'll release their old Speccy titles for public use.
That's not necessarily true. Microsoft bought The Blue Ribbon Soundworks, creators of the greatest MIDI program in the world, Bars & Pipes Pro [fromwithin.com] and eventually (after about 6 years) released the source code to the program back to the Amiga community.
Re:Why o Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why o Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why o Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why o Why? (Score:2)
So why the hell do these companies care so much about redistributing ROMs?
Re:Why o Why? (Score:4, Interesting)
Its about reducing choice, all this free stuff on the internet make it harder to sell new games. If people spend their time playing this old stuff, they won't want to fork over $50=$70 buying the latest and greatest.
So organisations like this go around trying to wipe out these sites. of course its not about copyright violation, no ZX pectrum game designer is paying these people to do this. No, its about control of market, the newer game companies are paying this company.
Re:Why o Why? (Score:2)
$50=$70
Okay, I'll give you $50 for $70...Re: Mobile gaming is one possible outlet (Score:3, Informative)
While a Java-enabled cell phone may have comperable computing power to an early 80's console game, that does not mean that it's going to be easy to port an old game to it; and a cell phone or PDA isn't going to have the horsepower to run an emulator. Since Java didn't exist when these games were written (and they wouldn't have been written in it even if it had existed), you're going to have to re-write the entire game from scratch in Java. (Alternatively, you could write a compiler and support library which would allow you to compile the original source into Java bytecodes; this would be a monumental effort of dubious value)
Soldier Of Fortune (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Soldier Of Fortune (Score:5, Insightful)
007 (007 Nightfire is released)
Barbarian (That new barbarian game is released)
Donkey Kong ( Donkey Kong's nintendo latest games)
Frogger ( Wasn't there a gba version?)
Mario ( New mario games for gba and gc are released)
Pac Man (Pac man world 2 is released)
Soldier of fortune (that 3d game that is released)
It seems to me that IDSA thinks that spectrum is a game console or a very high standard pc codename(if so, 48k should be enough for anyone).
What's next? They are going to stop anyone who makes pong distributable to other platforms?
Legal archive? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you read WoS's FAQ it even pretty much admits that their archive isn't fully legal...And if you read the correspondence, it only really deals with SoF, it ignores the other infringing games such as Frogger, Donkey Kong, etc.
Re:Legal archive? (Score:4, Funny)
ROMs, sir? ROMS?? I'll have you know that the Speccy was a fully tape-based computer, except for the Amstrad ones cos some of them had disk drives (though they were crappy disk drives, three-inch thingies). The only ROMs I've ever seen in a Spectrum are the ones that hold the Operating System, and those are freely distributable according to Amstrad.
You may be thinking of the very very VERY small number of cartridge games (i.e. 2) that were available for extensions like the multiface, etc. Or you may be confusing a proper computer like wot the spectrum woz for a two-bit eight-bit console like the NES.
Re:Legal archive? (Score:2, Informative)
but regardless, I Think you're right he has mistaken 5 minutes of kraftwerk music to a rom because nowadays it comes in a little
[http://www.worldofspectrum.org/int2roms/]
The
Jetpac.
Pssst.
Cookie.
Tranz Am.
Chess.
Backgammon.
Hungry Horace.
Horace and the spiders.
Planetoids.
Space Raiders.
They were intended to compete with the games consoles of the day, but were not very successful.
Discs and microdrives (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Legal archive? (Score:5, Informative)
Show me a link to a Nintendo game on the site - otherwise I am pretty sceptical. I suspect that you may be as guilty of rushing in without checking the facts first as the the Lawyer from the main story - which is surely the moral here.
P.S. Donkey Kong may have originally appeared in the arcades on a Nintendo machine, put in the case of the spectrum, the Donky Kong game was published by Ocean and even then written by someone else - so just because it is called "Donky Kong" doesn't mean that it has anything to do, in copyright terms, with Nintendo (although the name Donky Kong may have been licensed from Nintendo at some point).
Re:Legal archive? (Score:3, Interesting)
Your P.S. was correct. The Donkey Kong name, the characters Mario, Donkey Kong and Daisy etc. were all licensed from/ripped from Nintendo. In either case, Nintendo have the right to claim distribution denied if they so wish.
A similar thing occurred on the Dragon32 (now there was a nice computer) when Microdeal created a rip-off version of Donkey Kong which, imaginatively, they entitled Donkey King. Nintendo got in a huff, and made them change the name of their program to The King. Which they did. Shortly they released a rather good game called Junior's Revenge, in which Kong's son Junior kidnapped Mario and Luigi had to go through about five screens of dodgy platform-style japes in order to rescue him.
FWIW there are licensed games on the site which are still actively protected: e.g. Sega's Frogger.
Re:Legal archive? (Score:2)
Re:Legal archive? (Score:2)
Re:Legal archive? (Score:2)
Illegal copy of illegal game... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Legal archive? (Score:2)
The IDSA letter only says the site has ONE OR MORE (but not limited to) infringing items. That list was probably a generic list of games the IDSA have permission to look for.
Devil's advocate (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a big user of emulation - some MAME, a fair amount of C64 and also Amiga stuff. However, I do feel that if the original copyright owners complain, then the fair thing to do is to take the downloads down. In this case, IDSA is being too vague and needs to give a specific list of titles. Once given though, I feel it is only correct to comply.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Devil's advocate (Score:3, Funny)
dude do u konw where I can get kof2001 romz or just email them 2 me thx otherwise u sux lol!!!
Re:Devil's advocate (Score:5, Informative)
Nintendo were very careless about licensing in the early eighties. Donkey Kong and Mario Bros appeared on several home computers before Nintendo realised they could make more money if they only appeared on the NES. It may well be that the companies that published the old Nintendo arcade games on computers in the eighties actually do have the right to make them freely downloadable.
That said, just saying 'Mario' is about as vague as it gets. How many Mario games are there now?
Sloppy work (Score:4, Insightful)
This would of course take time and effort and a general scare letter may work in the majority of cases.
They seem to specialize in this (Score:5, Interesting)
The IDSA wants all emulators to be banned [stanford.edu]. More on this here [ysrnry.co.uk].
More bullying [chillingeffects.org] by IDSA and Cox.
I'm guessing the IDSA is a games-only version of the BSA.
Re:They seem to specialize in this (Score:5, Insightful)
ALthough they don't actually say it the implication is that emulators are costing the industry a lot of money. In whose world? its not like any of this stuff is making anyone any money. I can understand copyright owener wanting to protect franchises etc. but even then they surely would be hard pushed to show how they where losing money from it.
Re:They seem to specialize in this (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyone playing a game on an emulator is not playing a new game.
In other words, even if you are only playing crappy old Spectrum titles that are officially redistributable for emulation, it still cuts into their market because the time you spend playing around with emulation is not spend playing one of their new games. As a result, less new games are sold.
In other words, it is their oligopoly they are protecting rather than someones copyright.
Who wants to protect copyright? (Score:5, Interesting)
Since most spectrum games were way better than anything seen thus far on a mobile phone...
Re:Who wants to protect copyright? (Score:2, Informative)
Example: Elite (Score:4, Interesting)
Ever play Elite?
Right now, on alt.fan.elite, there are threads going on where one of the joint copyright holders has 'asked for' (required) all Elite-a-likes to be removed from download. The reason was that he'd just realised a commercial Elite-a-like for handhelds, and when searching for reviews of it he found only illegal ports of Elite to the handhelds.
So yes, it may well be that they're trying to preserve copyrights so that these older games can be ported to mobile phones, PDAs...whatever. They do own the copyright, and they are within their rights to do that.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Example: Elite (Score:4, Informative)
Curiously enough, the other joint copyright holder has just about every version of Elite ever released available for free download on his website [clara.net]. It seems the two no longer get along terribly well...
Re:Example: Elite (Score:4, Interesting)
A mild understatement. I've been a fan of Elite since it first appeared on the BBC micro, and the pettiness between Ian Bell and David Braben is extraordinary. It occasionally spills over into alt.fan.elite, such as at the moment. The author of the re-engineered version is also working with Ian Bell to produce an Elite-inspired game which would be free of all Elite-based copyrights. Bell seem to refuse to even speak to Braben, let alone co-operate with him.
Without knowing people it's impossible for me to take sides without just guessing. The majority of the fans seem to have sided with Ian Bell, but Braben appears to have been behaving quite reasonably in his newsgroups posts so I'm withholding judgement.
Cheers,
Ian
IDSA: The RIAA of Video Games? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not familiar with their former actions, but this doesn't seem to be a good sign. Looking at their members [idsa.com], any questionable conduct could have very widespread effects. Don't wait until it's too late, let them know what you think now!
Re:IDSA: The RIAA of Video Games? (Score:3, Informative)
Ask anyone in the Emulation community - the IDSA has been doing this for years but they certainly aren't heavy-handed - they demand you remove things that they have copyrights to and nothing more (unlike the RIAA, which doesn't discriminate).
Clearly, they investigate many sites and just have a list of copyrights they hold. Now, it may be that the IDSA is right and the redistribution rights of, say, the Frogger license, mean that the licensee (ie/ the game producer/publisher/author) do NOT have the right to redistribute the game for free. This has not been explained by either the original letter or the response.
Of course, Occam says that the IDSA just has a bunch of interns searching Google and Top50 sites.
I am only speaking from experience and I am always willing to hear different opinions and experiences people have had with the IDSA...
Laws should take abandonware into account (Score:5, Insightful)
I think a law should be made to make it possible to declare something abandonware and enable non-profit redistribution, if the original firm holding the copyrights aren't selling/supporting it anymore.
There is probably lot's of problems with this approach, but I suspect there are more problems with going after people wanting to relive their memories, or wanting to let other people do so...
Re:Laws should take abandonware into account (Score:4, Insightful)
In Germany, it's not an infringement of copyright to make, or have made for you copies of works that have been out of print for 2 years or more. (If I understand the law correctly -IANAG :-)
In the UK, software copyrights only last for 25 years, so for the spectrum you don't have much longer to wait.
Disclaimer: IANAL. This legal advice is worth what you paid me for it.
Re:Laws should take abandonware into account (Score:2, Interesting)
We need general copyright law reform. Copyrights should require explicit renewal once the material enters the commercial market and after a suitable initial period of protection.
Something on the order of - lifetime of the author until a copy of the copyrighted material is made available to the public. From that point, the material is protected for 20 years without renewal. At the 20 year mark, and every 20 years thereafter, the copyright must be explicitly renewed by the copyright holder to remain in force.
That'd protect authors with unpublished work. But, once the work gets published, it would make it far more likely that the work would pass into the public domain before being lost.
Too bad the Berne Convention essential makes copyright reform in this direction impossible.
Re:Laws should take abandonware into account (Score:2, Interesting)
Back in 80's... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Back in 80's... (Score:2)
Fantastic idea. BoulderDash 1, 2, 3 and 4 I think. Maybe School Daze and Renegade too...
...or I could just climb into the loft and bring down the originals...
...then visit eBay!
Fantasic idea.
Mobile Phones? (Score:4, Interesting)
In days of Olde, these games were so popular because of the actual gameplay. Yes they had limiting graphics, but what they had worked so well. Now in this day of new mobile phones (Ericcsson P800 springs to mind) people are looking back at these games and thinking "that could easily be ported".
I grew up and learned to program in the Spectrum era. In fact if you hunt closely you may find one of my games. (^_^) Mobile Phones are now reaching the kind of status as a portable entertainment device. And games obviously figure quite highly on the list of money making revenue that the providers like. Forget Tetris. Multi-player Barbarian anyone?
Re:Mobile Phones? (Score:2, Informative)
A Two-Headed Monster? (Score:2, Insightful)
From another perspective (Score:5, Informative)
There is no such thing... (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, you were probably thinking of trademarks. If Atari had Pacman trademarked (which is likely), then a clone or near-clone of it would indeed dilute the trademark.
The other possibility is that the graphics of the clones were so close to the original as to be seen as a copy, in which case they would have been in breach of copyright.
Re:There is no such thing... (Score:2)
So anyone who makes a space game where the player shoots up asteroids / meteors will get sued by Atari?
Re:From another perspective (Score:2)
There is a limit on how long after the fact you can sue someone. I believe its 6 years after the violation for the UK.
These games date from twenty years ago, so its a little late in the day.
Plus its not dilution of copyright, at best its a trademark infringement. The code from these games is not the same code, you might argue that a monkey throwing barrels is the same as Donkey Kong throwing barrels but the time to argue that was twenty years ago when it was fresh in everyone's minds.
Now nobody can remember if the original 'claimed' trademark holder is really the same as the real trademark holder. Its worth remembering that just because a large company claims it has rights to these products doesn't mean its true. The video game companies themselves were notorious for making clones of the competitors products.
I don't know about them... (Score:5, Insightful)
Dear non-copyright-holder.
Thank you for the concern you express about somebody else's intellectual property. If you forward to me a hardcopy of the document signed by the copyright holder giving you the authority to request my not offering ___ for dowload, or if the original copyright holder makes such a request, I will promptly comply.
Yours, blah-blah-blah.
Given that the ISDA is a self-proclaimed authority that, in fact, very few copyright holders (and almost none outside the US) are members of, and given than the copyright holders of most of these programs have long gone the way of the dodo...
-- MG
(1) where my definition of "abandonware" is the most common one: software published by a company which is defunct, and which can no longer be purchased.
Re:I don't know about them... (Score:3, Informative)
Given that the ISDA is a self-proclaimed authority that, in fact, very few copyright holders (and almost none outside the US) are members of, and given than the copyright holders of most of these programs have long gone the way of the dodo...
However, members of the IDSA do hold the rights to a significant number of Spectrum games (most notably the Ocean and Ultimate games), actions designed to annoy them probably aren't the wisest course of action. As has been pointed out elsewhere, we don't have permission to distribute most of the games on WoS, despite our best efforts (or more precisely, those of Martijn van der Heide, the owner of WoS, who had previously contacted every IDSA member telling them we had their games available and asking for permission to do this).
IDSA Going Nuts (Score:5, Funny)
Lik-Sang, of course, went absolutely wild over it. They found it to be pretty hilarious and saw "So cheap, the IDSA finds it suspicious!" to be a brilliant selling point for their new "Price Crusher" promotion.
Heroes (Score:5, Interesting)
There are several ways of destroying games and one of the most effective ways is to simply not preserve them while trying to stop others doing so. Spectrum games are stored on ordinary cassette tapes that unlike paper books does not stand the test time. The information deteriorates over time, and it's most unlikely that these cassettes will be usable in 10 years time and definately not in 50 years.
With the IDSA, MPAA and organizations fighting emulation with stupid laws like the DMCA and threats like this, they are making both themselves AND future generations a big disservice. How many here honestly believe that Nintendo (who owns the copyright of the Mario character) actually have a copy of Mario for the Spectrum?
I collect games. But I don't store 10000 old 8bit games so I can sit and play them all day. I also collect them to ensure that they aren't lost. Do take a look at the "Missing in Action list att WoS to see the names of games that didin't make it. I don't trust a single person or a handful of them to actually manage keeping this stuff alive for future generations. I would like as many as possible to store stacks of old games on CD:s in their homes.
Software companies could aid this preservation in mainly two ways. They can either:
1) Allow free distribution. There's no drawback in doing so for them. It's goodwill and it's allso an efficient way to keep your company name fresh in peoples mind. These games are not something they will make very much money off anyway, and granting free distribution does NOT mean that they would lose copyrights for the lucrative characters.
2) Sell their old games. And I don't mean in newly "touched up versions". Just fill a CD with the original games and sell it in bulk. Currently, no company does so, although I applaude Sega and Konami for releasing at least some of their back catalogue commercially in _almost_ original shape.
If for instance Codemasters* were to ship a CD with all of their 8/16-bit games (which would easily fit onto 1 cd), I would buy this CD. As it stands now, Codemasters probably doesn't even have all their games themselves so they can't even compile such a CD anyway.
As the situation is today, I consider sites that distribute abandonware and old games freely to be custodians of our cultural heritage. Future digital archaeologists will thank "petty criminals" like Martijn Heide for the work they put into preserving these games. They are heroes!
* I use Codemasters as an example since they have denied distribution of their old 8bit games.
Re:Heroes (Score:3, Insightful)
However, it required you load a small program from tape first and then load the game from an audio CD player via a lead supplied with the CD to the joystick port of the later Amstrad manufactured "speccies"!
This cunning method also loaded the games into the computer a lot faster than from tape iirc
Re:Heroes (Score:2)
Publishers should sell archival CD's to collecters and (gasp) libraries. $500 for an archive of all 20 (or whatever) games your company made between 1980 and 1986, sold in a run of 100. Game company makes 50k (less 5k packaging and 10k distribution), ensures that the games are not lost for all time, makes a few collecters happy, and doesn't risk losing the revenue on a sequal to cheezy Amiga Pacman clone #3.
(non-)profit (Score:2, Interesting)
1) File lawsuit against people making old games available.
2) Non-profit guys scared shitless, can't afford lawsuit, remove old games from site.
3) Old games no longer available, sales of new games up.
4) Profit.
Remakes! (Score:3, Informative)
On an almost on-topic note, I've gotta point out this [sgn.net] site.
The spectrum had some of the coolest games ever, and the guys at Retrospec have made some great remakes. For those of you who were unfortunate enough to never have a Spectrum, I'd especially recommend any of the versions of Manic Miner, and Klass of '99 (a remake of Skool Daze).
I'm sure I still have a working Spectrum around here somewhere...
Over-zealousness (Score:2, Insightful)
There is a similar Amiga (and PC demo) site, Back 2 the Roots [back2roots.org]. It is a great site with hundreds of Amiga games, demos, music, and PC demos on there for download. The owner of the site has gone to great pains to get permission for every piece of copyright work (i.e. games and music) on there.
The site has been knocked out of action twice by IDSA. The problem is that the IDSA didn't check or anything (both times), they just told the ISP the site was illegal and the ISP complied!
I sent a complaint mail to them about it, but of course, I didn't receive anything back.
The IDSA may have their place, but they are being paid by the industry to do a job that they are obviously not doing properly.
For the record (Score:2)
For the record, these games:
http://c64.users2.50megs.com/ [50megs.com]Are absolutely fine by me. Its abandonware, I wrote them when I was a spoilt brat and I was really please to see a C64 enthusiast take them and put them on the net. (Just wish they were better games, I can write better than this now, honest!)
Re:For the record (Score:2)
Neither did I, the endings crap, download Manic Miner instead, this ZxSpec site has the original!
Don't click the link! (Score:3, Interesting)
Something similar just happened in Germany (Score:5, Funny)
The BSA sent the university a cease&desist-letter and told them to stop distributing MS Office over their FTP server.
Unfortunately, the file mentioned in the letter is "/mandrake_current/SRPMS/OpenOffice.org-1.0.1-9md
Read more about it on Heise [heise.de] (sorry, German).
IDSA repeats (Score:3, Informative)
When Sinclair User brought out the MegaTapes, the first couple of tapes had some decent stuff, games no longer available for resale. Then IDSA stepped in and complained that it was preventing people from buying newer games, which had the effect of turning the MegaTapes into a demo/reader written game range.
/. Interviews (Score:2)
Interview with a Vampire (Score:2)
I make no excuses; I own a Apple IIGS, and an old Powerbook. Just what do these people expect?
The machines are unsupported, out of warranty, and are completely obsoleted by Apple. Yes, they have system software downloads for the IIGS, and for the Mac, but those stop at sys 7.5x (Mac.)
I own these machines, and will do whatever I want with them. If it takes downloading a .2mg file for the GS emulator on my mac, if I need to make a disk image of my mac HD, If I have to scour the net for a control panel that was EOLed and is not able to be purchased, I will in a heartbeat.
Screw these people who are 'defending' the copyright of 'Beneath Apple Manor', Cannonball Blitz, and whatever else runs on the IIGS. Show me where I can buy these, online or otherwise.
The copyright problem here is that software will outlast the machines they run on. 20 years from now, when the motherboard of the IIGS goes bad, all the software, and info that was created/stored on this machine can be used in an emulator.
I really don't care about the 'rights' of copyright holders in this context, it all comes down to what I need/want to do on these machines.
Some authors are still active, and are awake to the situation. They realize there is no point to holding on to their releases, and submit them as freeware. That's great. Even Shareware serves this purpose.
Cinemaware is a good example of this. They are rereleasing Defender of the Crown on new platforms (GBA/phones) *AND* making the old disk images available for download! Why not? Is someone going to walk into Software, ETC. and ask for the black and white Macintosh version anytime soon? I think not.
All best are off when the copyright holder is not available, or just sitting on this stuff. I will have it one way or another. Abandonware is illegal because copyright is (becoming) eternal. Frankly, I don't care.
I cut my 'pirate' tooth on a Apple IIe, (do legal copies of any Apple II game even exist?) and will continue to use and promote the Apple II software.
Abandonware should be legal. Out of print, EoL software should be legal. If I can't buy it new and supported from a store or online, it should be fair game.
When copyright is extended to absurd lengths, it only weakens the idea of copyright on new things.
Lots of people feel that Abandonware is fine and dandy to copy and distribute. Some even feel it's ok to charge for it. That's where I draw my line in the sand. If the copyright holders want to charge for it - Great! It's not Abandonware. If some guy wants to sell you a $4 floppy with Hard Hat Mack and Diamond Mine on it, no way. Don't sell this stuff.
Copyright lasts too long. Public Domain is already on it's way out. Abandonware is illegal. I will continue to break the law until the law is changed. Many people feel similarly, (50,000,000 Fans of Elvis using Kazaa Can't Be Wrong) and the copyright laws need to reflect this. Laws should reflect society and not lobbying.
My name is Steve Jobs, and I am a pirate.
Re:From address (Score:5, Funny)
God, I'm childish.
Re:From address (Score:2)
This case really reminds me of the Harrison trawl [counterpane.com], where RIAA lawyers asserted that George Harrison owned copyright to images named "Portrait of Mrs. Harrison Williams 1943" and (perhaps more seriously) "Nude Preteens and Young Teens Naked
Maybe he does. In the latter case, shouldn't somebody tell the police? We could do with another paedophile frenzy here in the UK...
Re:Pennies for ROMS now... (Score:2, Insightful)
We're just talking about distributing games for a platform that's been end-of-life for many years. There's no financial loss involved and, due to the interest of the retro-gaming community, it could work out to the publishers' financial benefit.
Re:YOU FAIL IT! (Score:2)