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Journal CleverNickName's Journal: A 1974 review of D&D 26

Journal by CleverNickName

Boing Boing pointed me to this 1974 review of the "new" Dungeons and Dragons game.

Some highlights: D&D was subtitled "Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargams Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures."

The reviewer concludes, "In general, the concept and imagination involved is stunning. However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable."

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A 1974 review of D&D More

A 1974 review of D&D

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  • From the review... (Score:3, Funny)

    by daeley ( 126313 ) on Wednesday February 19, 2003 @01:49PM (#5336183) Homepage
    "Vastly too much has been attempted in these booklets, with very little detail, explanations or procedures...."

    Well, they sure took care of that little problem in the next couple of editions, didn't they? ;)
  • The author of that review says the optimum solution is to play by phone or mail, and then seems to give an example. But then the example seems to have nothing to do with playing by phone or mail?

    --sex [slashdot.org]

  • Cool (Score:2)

    by ryanr ( 30917 )
    I've started collecting the old materials, mostly from eBay. I've got a couple of the early 70's manuals written by Gygax. I had started playing as a kid I guess about when AD&D was new.

    • Re:Cool (Score:2)

      by cei ( 107343 )
      Yeah, I got in around the time the first AD&D Player's Handbook was published... maybe even a few months before. A large portion of my childhood (and my allowance) was invested in the game.
      • I played D&D (Not AD&D) when I was about 10. Recently I picked up the Core Rules CD that has all the second edition books on (the "core" ones anyway). I also picked up the little shirt pocket sized versions of the Players, DM's and Monster Manual they released a few years back. Wonderful little things.
    • I loaned out my entire set of books to a friend in high school (I'm 41 now.) Huge mistake -- I never saw them again. I had Chainmail, the three D&D books and I seem to recall another series of add-ons, perhaps six more books, all stuffed into the white box that the original three came in.

      We started out playing Chainmail and we had a grand time plotting out dungeons on tiny graph paper and populating them with monsters and puzzles. We took turns creating dungeons and running the games. We were also kind of isolated from other gamers, and so didn't realize we should set up a grand background story -- we just thought running around a dungeon, talking to oracular fountains and kicking monster ass was just the coolest thing.

      It wasn't till much later (probably the AD&D era) that we started playing plot-based campaigns. Our first campaigns were still home-brewed, and I enjoyed those more than we ever enjoyed the pre-packaged adventures TSR sold. The sole advantage of the purchased campaigns was simply that the DM didn't have to spend so much time preparing.

      John

      P.S. If you're buying them on eBay from a guy named Troy Micheau, tell him they're MINE and I WANT THEM BACK! :-)

      • OK, so I had to go look...

        The older of the books I have are Chainmail 3rd ed:
        http://www.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-cm3-7.htm [flash.net]
        and D&D Supplement I Greyhawk:
        http://www.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-sup1-12.htm [flash.net]

        My Chainmail says Copyright 1975, and my Greyhawk 1976. Not quite "Early 70's" like I thought.. thought I had something from 74? Maybe elsewhere.

        I've also got a personal mission to buy one of each of the original dungeons. Sites like the one above are a great resource for that sort of thing.

        Anyway, now I've got the money to buy all the crap, and no time to play it. Such is life. :)

        If I see anything from Troy, I'll be sure to report him to eBay for selling stolen property. :)
  • I got started playing RPGs in about 1985 or so with the original boxed Dungeons and Dragons set (red box). In about 1988 I moved up into Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. From here on I will distuish between D&D (non-advanced) and AD&D by the 'A'.

    By the time I started playing D&D, the rules were fairly solid. There was very little that the rules did not explain. Of course, the game itself was fairly simple (in comparison to the massive amount of rules available for AD&D) and could be fairly well covered in a couple of small paper-bound books.

    I moved up into AD&D and was amazed how poorly everything was written. Rules were vague, there were tables in the book that had no explanation in the text, and rules would frequently contradict a rule written elsewhere. "Unearthed Arcana" was not so much a supplement, but largely a "required clarification and needed expansion" of the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide.

    AD&D, under that system, was popular in part because of that - everyone had their own rules and their own interpretations. Every DM was different, and learning his/her style was half of the game.

    AD&D Second Edition was a welcome addition in terms of rules clarification, but a lot of people I knew did not jump on the bandwagaon immediately, if at all. The reason? It was not as backwards compatible as it could have been (I think that is a good thing) and people were unable to bring over their old personalized systems over.

    I played in a couple of campaigns that were a mis-mash of First and Second Editions rules ("We will be using the Initiative rules from the Second Edition, and the weapon specialty rules from the First Edition. Encumberance rules will be made up, with this hand-printed sheet describing it.")

    Those were the days...

    • I think that the original Red box and the additional blue box (expert?) were about right for us starting out in middle school. You're right on with the AD&D rules being vague. While it was nice to personalize the rules a bit to fit the group, it did cause an odd "social" interaction later on. As I got into high school and we were exposed to more other kids who played there was partiasnship that developed -- the equivalent of clans or gangs having formed around particular groups and DMs. I personally began to lose interest after five years of being a DM and moved into more traditional war gaming (AH's Squad Leader, Ironclads, &c.).

      Anyway, having not thought about any of this for nearly 20 years I picked up a copy of Baldur's Gate in the bargain bin at Best Buy and a lot of stuff came back all at once. I've actually found myself thinking about how I might be able to get my kids interested in playing in a few years. Do they (kids) even play anymore, or is it just a bunch of old grognards?

      • I also started out on the boxed sets. The third set (Companion?) was the best, and the Expert rules were required for anything other than the dullest of play. The black and gold sets (Masters and Immortals?) were just for Twinkie games (or whatever you call the dipshits who make up massively overpowered characters for the sake of playing tanks.)

        Baldur's Gate was a hoot. I got it within a few months of release. Icewind Dale features similar play mechanics, but a less involving story. NWN was fun, but the online play was horrible. At the time I gave it up, the only modules to have been released were these awful deathmatch type things.

        People do still play the games. My local comic book shop has gaming on Saturdays and Sundays. Most of the kids are playing various card games, even up to the age (10-13) where most of us picked up D&D. The 13-18 year olds seemed to be playing HeroClix and similar games (nifty miniatures game. I bought the DC set hoping to play with my wife, who liked collectible card games, but then she went blind. I still pick up a set sometime, and I'm going to make my kid play:) There is a D&D group that plays every weekend. The players seem to be about 20-35, which is a bit worrisome for the genre. The store stocks plenty of 'grognard' games, but I've never seen anyone playing them (or buying them). Ditto for Warhammer and GURPS.

        It's funny that I read this JE today, as I just picked up a copy of Dragon/Polyhedron (they merged about a year ago). I pick one up every six months or so, just for kicks. Then I remember that I don't have a gaming group, so I stop looking online to buy books:)
      • My stepkids play RPGs, and other "gamer" games, and they love them.

        Well, at least they fake it real good when they're playing with me. :)

        I bought Heroclix for Nolan for Xmas, and he freaking LOVES it. We have played at least 2 hours a day, every night this week.

        I took them to the game shop in Burbank last week, so I could replace my GURPS 3E basic rules, and had to drag Nolan (11) out of there. Ryan (13) is a HUGE fan of Talisman and Car Wars. They both love Awful Green Things.

        I introduced them to D&D 3E (hereafter "d20") right when it shipped, and it was a bit harder to get them excited about it, mostly because there were so many different classes, feats, etc. I think this is where GURPS lite (free for download from SJG) beats d20, at least for 12 year olds: it's not as intimidating.

        But the "red box set" of D&D, back in 1985, where you had to color in the dice yourself, the "wilderness expansion" and that Keep on the Borderlands . . . man, those will ALWAYS hold a precious (heh, preccccciiiooooouuuusssss) place in my heart. It was much easier, as a kid, to pick up a small book, decide to be a "Fighter" or "Wizard" and take the experience of playing "Dungeon!" (Oh, another HUGE hit with my stepkids) to the next level.

        They've also taken a shine to HeroQuest, though I've never seen them use the rules . . . one kid plays the heroes, and another kid plays the monsters. There's lots of dice rolling and lots of talking in weird voices, just like when Stephen Beal and I would play in 6th grade.

        Man, I could write a whole novella centering around my childhood as a gamer and nerd . . . hmmmm.
        • Borderlands . . . man, those will ALWAYS hold

          I remember almost everything about my first campaign. Every time I DM, I end up trying to mimic it accidentally.

          I'm not so sure it's the box, but rather that it's the first exposure to RPGing. ... course, I assumed that was the first game...

        • Man, I could write a whole novella centering around my childhood as a gamer and nerd . . .

          [Cue Richard Dreyfus voice:]

          "I'll always remember the summer of 1985 when me and my friends found the red box set of D&D..."

          [Roll of dice]

          "A +5 leech has attached itself to your privates."

  • "In general, the concept and imagination involved is stunning. However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable."

    Yeah, these days with FPS games not much imagination is required eh? The other funny thing is that the reviewer says much more work etc... is required, but back in 1981, I was our local dungeonmaster and at the age of 11 had all the skills necessary to tell the story, organize a campaign, and create a world for other junior high level kids in the neighborhood. Of course money from mowing the lawns to purchase all the books helped..... But my point is that we had rules and mechanisms all in our pre-teen and teen heads for this game way back when, and the reviewer is saying the game is unmanageable?

  • Whenever I've found a group, everyone wants to be a player; nobody wants to be a DM. DM's have a ton of responsibility, but little of the fun. Or so it seems. Yeah, I guess they can do many of the same things, but it requires so much work outside of the gaming session.

    The review reminds me of Tannenbaum's comments about Torvald's toy operating system.
    • Whenever I've found a group, everyone wants to be a player; nobody wants to be a DM.

      Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it's the area, but I'm in a few different gaming groups (geez, just branded myself a geek) and in all of them most of the players DM other games and/or will do guest DM spots.

      That way everyone gets to play some, everyone who wants to gets to run some, and no one who doesn't want the DM/GM load has to take it all the time but can do thing occasionally, even if it's just help another DM run a battle.

      It helps we play a few game systems, not just D&D (3ed), so that other people who have other interests get a chance to run what they really like. Mostly D&D, some Champions, we did a little Star Trek (Last Unicorn version) and Deadlands but without as much staying power.

      Bring it up to your group, or even DM in the round where everyone takes a turn in a shared world (and their character is on hiatus when they run). It's a lot of work to DM, but for some that's part of what makes it so rewarding.

      Cheers,
      =Blue(23)
  • I started playing D&D in 1975, with a few other folks (male and female) in my dorm when I was a freshman. Somewhere, I still have the first three volumes, in the original box, plus the first two supplements; in good shape, probably worth a few hundred dollars. I also have the first three AD&D volumes, circa 1980 or 1981.

    The original D&D rule books didn't stand alone; they referred you to the Chainmail book for some of what you needed. (If I remember correctly.)

    FWIW, I played regularly for my first two years of college, and then again for my last two years of graduate school. When I graduated, the local hobby shop here organized games ... but I felt weird playing with kids nearly ten years younger than me. (It was fun, though, to get together once with some friends who were going to play, find out we had too many players and too few refs, and be able to pull a custom dungeon out of my notebook and ref a one-off adventure.)

    For all that I liked D&D, the game I got into most was Villians and Vigilantes, a comic book suprehero roleplaying game. It wasn't the game itself; it was mostly the folks I was playing with, an awesome powermaster or two, and my then very active love of comic books. I'm still working off some of the inspiration I got from those campaigns. (In fact, I ought to be working a lot harder off them, and on them.)
    • ... but I felt weird playing with kids nearly ten years younger than me.

      I have wondered if it is maturity; not necessarily age and 'outgrowing' the games, that has prevented me from continuing to play D&D and other paper RPGs. Every six or eight weeks I get a chance to visit with some of my friends, my age; and we have a ton of RPG books amongst us but they are often now for the artwork and the background to things [like Star Wars] that we enjoy outside of an RPG environment. We now pick up 'blue box' games - that's what they call them - like Settlers of Cataan and Orcs at the Gate; fun and involved games that require little overhead or time to learn so people that haven't been over to visit for a while can pick it up and we can all still gossip and talk about family and movies and books in between without being there until five in the morning - after all some of our wives don't come over with us and would like us home the one night that they can see us too.

  • w00t! (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by CleverNickName ( 129189 )
    My submission made it to the front page! Cool!

    Of course, you heard it here, first.

    Heh. :)
  • But I REMEMBER that review. *sigh*

    Nope, I'm old. crap...
  • Will, if you still need help w/ Redhat and CUPS, check your inbox and the comments on you website. I posted on the blog about the random stream of thoughts or soemthing like that

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