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Journal tomhudson's Journal: This should be interesting ... 121

Journal by tomhudson

Note: The updates are listed in reverse chronological order - latest one at the top. You'll have to scroll down to see my original post. And for those wondering, I've never suggested he be charged for an offence or extradited or anything - just barred from visiting Canada any more.

update 5: More on Seeber's cross-border violations:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=180203&cid=14925199

Seeber: We do this every day. Back when I was actually doing business in Canada (10 years ago, admitedly) we had a member of our business who had a DUI in Oregon- a felony in Canada. He couldn't fly there- but I could drive him across the border in Washington State without even getting either his or my ID checked. After that, we had a brisk trade going- Oregon limited tax cigarettes in exchange for real Tabasco sauce (the kind based on whiskey instead of vinegar) and full strength Jolt.

Likewise, there's no way given the current border patrol strength of either the US or Canada that they can possibly guard a 3000 mile border adequately- this would probably require deploying a few million adaptive minefields to do with current border patrol strength.

In other words, your thoughts aren't very grounded in the current situation of the border. Would the government be within their rights to keep such people out? Of course, that's not the question. The question is whether or not they have any ABILITY to keep people like me out- and that is gravely in doubt.

update 4: Okay, just how stupid can any one person be ...
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=179789&cid=14920005

Seeber's latest "claim to fame" ...

Seeber: We would be better off if W, his predecessor Clinton, and the original Bush, plus his grandfather Prescott, had never been born at all, and like with my comment about homosexuals, the one thing that would keep me from shooting him is the fact that Cheney ain't much better. I've said that all online before- on slashdot before- and haven't had the posting removed, or gotten a knock on the door- even when I was expecting one (Al Gore once passed within a mile or so of my house on a light-rail train before it was open to the public, so I played a bit of a game with Secret Service targeting the train with a laser pointer).

update 3: A regular crime wave - smuggling humans across borders ...
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=179736&cid=14908400

Me: So, don't come to Canada. Once on our soil, you are subject to our laws, and you've already breeched them. The fine for violating Section 13 is a maximum of $10,000.00, plus interest.

Seeber: Doesn't matter- you'd have to catch me first, and Canada has a rotten record of preventing people from sneaking across it's borders. I've smuggled people across the Canadian border before, and you don't scare me with your hatred and anti-Catholic behavior.

Okay, how does my saying his hate speech is wrong translate into my "hatred and anti-catholic behaviour"? Oh, right - he's more catholic than the pope. Silly me.

update 2: Death threats, bombs and kiddie porn
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=179936&cid=14908787

However, you do not have free speech in the United States. Try going up to someone and saying that you're going to kill them. Try sending an email to the white house with a death threat. Try putting a notice in the local paper saying you are looking for people to help you plant bombs and overthrow the government. Try posting kiddie pr0n on the net under the guise of "free speech".

Seeber: I've done all of this at one time or another. Let's take them in turn.

Try going up to someone and saying that you're going to kill them.

Seeber: Irrelevant unless you actually do kill them- then after the fact it can be brought up at your trial (also, due to the problem with human evidence, it can be relevant if they died a violent death within a few hours or days of you saying it even if you didn't do it- but I've yet to have that happen).

Try putting a notice in the local paper saying you are looking for people to help you plant bombs and overthrow the government.

Seeber: Done that- again it doesn't matter unless a government building blows up soon afterwards.

Try sending an email to the white house with a death threat.

Seeber: And all you'll get back is the standard White House AutoResponder message promising to look into your issue- as your actual e-mail is directed to /dev/null.

Try posting kiddie pr0n on the net under the guise of "free speech".

Seeber: This is harder- but the authorities actually have to prove that the kiddie porn involved real kids, as opposed to clever simulations thereof.

None of these are "protected speech" in either country. We're all in this together, no matter which side of the border we're on.

The difference being in the United States, all of this garners a "so what" from authorities until somebody is actually killed- where I've yet to recieve a notice of a fine in Canada against my American e-mail server, you seem to think I'm in danger of recieving one.

Gee - a one-man gang ... what sort of idiot admits to having sent death threats to the white house (as per his statement "I've done all of this at one time or another.")? Normal people won't even joke about doing that, no matter how much we might disagree.

update 1: I've forwarded his email to my local MP. She's in a better position to make sure it gets to the right people. He needs to be on our joint (US-Canada) watch list so he doesn't come into Canada, and someone needs to check up on his home situation to make sure he's not a threat to his wife and son, or himself.

Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act prohibits the communication by means of a telecommunication undertaking (including the Internet) of messages that are likely to expose a person to hatred or contempt on the basis of:

  • race
  • national or ethnic origin
  • colour
  • religion
  • age
  • sex
  • sexual orientation
  • marital status
  • family status
  • disability
  • conviction for which a pardon has been granted

Under the Immigration Act, customs officials have the authority to stop hate material from entering Canada, and to refuse entry to individual hate-mongers.

I think our laws are a reasonable, measured response to people who promote hatred. We don't tolerate it, and people who do so are not welcome here.

original post:

More abortion debate fallout ... while discussing South Dakota here, I brought up another issue ...

This is from the same poster (Theodore M. Seeber, a.k.a. Marxist Hacker 42):
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170353&cid=14210078 original post (scroll down - last 3 paragraphs)
http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson/journal/123897 my original JE about it where I quote him

He still claims that its a defensible stand.

Seeber: Ok, here's my personal view- all sexual behavior is *learned* not *natural*. Whatever gives you sexual pleasure first becomes, by instinct, what turns you on forever after. Get raped by a homosexual in school, and you'll become gay.

Sex does have an instinctual purpose- but *only* heterosexual sex, and that purpose is for the continuation of the species *only*. To that end- transgendered people and homosexuals are mutations that need to be expunged from the genome. The fact that these mutations are not survival based means that they *will* eventually be expunged from the genome, if we are strong enough to deny them a cultural way of passing on their behavior. It's stupid, from a species survival or cultural survival standpoint, to encourage such behavior.

And that's what I truly believe, not just about homosexuals and the transgendered- but also about divorce, premarital sex, prostitution, and any other sexual immorality. From an evolutionary standpoint it's a dead end. If it wasn't for Church teaching against discrimination, I'd be for hunting permits to end this false "diversity".

I say its promoting hatred, and, at least in Canada, illegal, but that if he really thinks its defensible, to back up his beliefs with action:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=179736&cid=14887452

Me: Your statement about hunting permits is unambiguous.

Seeber: Yes, it is- completely. The first part of the sentence says that the second part is immoral. And it's not just the one paragraph- the context includes YOUR question asking me for MY beliefs- which says that you're open to listening to my beliefs no matter what they are.

Me: If you think its defensible in the context, you can put it to the test - email me the whole paragraph, so the context doesn't get lost. Use this email address: hudson AT videotron DOT ca

Seeber: The context has nothing to defend- in context it's merely a statement of belief.

Me: Do you have the courage of your convictions? For some reason, I doubt it.

Seeber: Well, since a full copy was saved on my home e-mail server, as well as the original post of yours is now archived that asked for my HONEST opinion, I have no problem with honesty. If Canada thinks they have a problem with it, well, it's not like I'm going to fly there ever again and your country has the same problem with immigration control as mine does.

So, it finally arrives, along with an attempted disclaimer:

Subject: Shrink Wrap Agreement
By recieving (sic) this, you agree that you asked to recieve (sic) this. Repost from slashdot.org http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170353&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=14210078 for full context

---------------------------------------------------------------

I'm genuinely curious as to what you believe. Your avoidance of that one topic has got me wondering if maybe, on that topic, you don't see eye to eye with the church. pThis is one case where YOU can settle the question, which is specifically YOUR beliefs. I don't want to hear the church's view. I want yours.

Ok, here's my personal view- all sexual behavior is *learned* not *natural*. Whatever gives you sexual pleasure first becomes, by instinct, what turns you on forever after. Get raped by a homosexual in school, and you'll become gay.

Sex does have an instinctual purpose- but *only* heterosexual sex, and that purpose is for the continuation of the species *only*. To that end- transgendered people and homosexuals are mutations that need to be expunged from the genome. The fact that these mutations are not survival based means that they *will* eventually be expunged from the genome, if we are strong enough to deny them a cultural way of passing on their behavior. It's stupid, from a species survival or cultural survival standpoint, to encourage such behavior.

And that's what I truly believe, not just about homosexuals and the transgendered- but also about divorce, premarital sex, prostitution, and any other sexual immorality. From an evolutionary standpoint it's a dead end. If it wasn't for Church teaching against discrimination, I'd be for hunting permits to end this false "diversity".

It may be an "honest opinion", but it makes him someone who I think should be barred from ever entering my country (and it would also probably be a "Good Thing" for those around him if someone had a serious talk with him), so you can guess what's on my TODO list tomorrow.

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This should be interesting ... More

This should be interesting ...

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  • http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=179736&cid=14 8 87714 [slashdot.org]

    by Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) on 13:19 Thursday 09 March 2006 (#14887714)

    (http://www.informationr.us/ [informationr.us] | Last Journal: 5:23 Thursday 09 March 2006)

    I think there's only one neccessary link- the original discussion in which you ASKED for my opinion. At the very least, that'd be called entrapment- as would this set. But since Canada won't extradite muderers to Oregon, I doubt very much that Oregon would extradite me to Canada- and since I've

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Now he's trying to say I somehow "entrapped" him, even though I'm not a police officer.

      In the original discussion, I warned him of the consequences:
      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170353&cid=14 2 11912 [slashdot.org]

      Well, don't publish anything like that here in Canada - even on a blog. We have laws targeting hate speech that incites violence, and we back them up with teeth. Not just having your ISP cut off, but jail time.

      As it is, what you just posted is enough to get you barred from entering the country.

      • How this is entrapment is beyond me

        It isn't quite, but I hope simply expressing an opinion - however unpopular - isn't a crime in Canada. If he'd been making actual threats, it would be different, but is, say, saying "paedophiles should be shot" illegal in itself?

        Given my experience when MH42 decided to explain my own country's education system to me (apparently we don't have free education after all, only America does - which is going to come as a really nasty shock to all the parents here!) - I don't

    • ...how evil opinions suddenly become non-evil simply because they're genuinely felt. His entire defense seems to be "Yes, but I do believe that! You asked my opinion, so how am I in the wrong?"

      Nope, you don't understand the defense- which is actually threefold:

      1. Unlike in Canada apparently, we have a little something in the United States called Freedom of Speech. The ACLU has repeatedly won cases for people you'd think they'd never defend- and "hate speech" is perfectly legal here. Part of the reaso
        1. "I'm willing to put myself up as a martyr to find out."

          Translation: delusions of grandeur, narcistic martyr complex.

        2. "my Sweedish Mauser sniper rifle"

          Translation: gun nut

        3. "lack of border enforcement just means that I have to drive there"

          Translation: "They" can't stop me. Laws are for others.

        "sniper rifle"?!? "a few million people ahead of the gays in line" ?!?

        You're sick. Get some help.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Viewpoints are not Good or Evil. Viewpoints are viewpoints. That's all they are. Assigning "Good" and "Evil" to mere thoughts just turns you from the hated to the hater.
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • No, certain viewpoints are evil. Sorry. Whether you believe that homosexuals and transexuals mean the end of the human race or not, expressing conditional ("I would if my Church wouldn't oppose it") support for their murder is evil. Whether you believe that "muslims" are a threat to the West or not, expressing support for a holocaust against all muslims is evil.

              Well, Canada already believes in that kind of conditional support for genocide- as does the US government. Plenty of my ancestors were killed of
              • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                • Comment removed based on user account deletion

                • He's getting worse now - he's admitted to sending death threats to the white house: here [slashdot.org] - also copied to the top of the thread.

                  Me: However, you do not have free speech in the United States. Try going up to someone and saying that you're going to kill them. Try sending an email to the white house with a death threat. Try putting a notice in the local paper saying you are looking for people to help you plant bombs and overthrow the government. Try posting kiddie pr0n on the net under the guise of "free sp

  • I'm still aghast that he said it at all, let alone followed up on it. And I am not alone in this. Know that there are plenty of us out here who disagree with him, and think he should seriously get some help.

    • When I first read it, my reaction (which I kept to myself because there was nothing I could do about a blog posting in another country) was "This guy's got a wife and kid? Oh-oh ..."

      Thanks for yur support. Hopefully he won't wait until he's forced to seek help, but go sometime in the next few days and have a long talk with someone who will do more than just tell him what he wants to hear. His anger towards anyone who's had premarital sex, a divorce, an abortion, or is gay, lesbian, bisexual, or the trans

      • It's not just on this issue that he's wacked out. He thinks nuking Mecca would be a rational and effective response to 9/11/01.

        My foes list is very short, but by revulsion at his ideas [slashdot.org] is such that even such an empty gesture of defiance seemed necessary. I'm embarrased that he lives in my state.

        Happy hunting.
        • It's not just on this issue that he's wacked out. He thinks nuking Mecca would be a rational and effective response to 9/11/01.

          To be fair, he also claims to think he has historical precedent for this: America "nuking" Libya in 1986 [wikipedia.org] in retaliation for the 1988 "hijacking" of Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland [wikipedia.org], meaning that time actually flows backwards for him, with effect preceding cause.

          I doubt MH42's homophobic rants would be taken seriously enough to merit any actual action anyway, and prosecuting h

          • I don't think there's any question of prosecuting him unless he decides to come to Canada (his posts imply he's been here before). Better for everyone just to keep him out as an undesireable.

            My other concern is his wife and kid ... it must be a real strain trying to cope with someone like that, and I would feel better if I knew that someone made sure to keep any guns well away from him, just in case.

            • I don't think there's any question of prosecuting him unless he decides to come to Canada (his posts imply he's been here before). Better for everyone just to keep him out as an undesireable.

              Given his xenophobia, I doubt it - and given his grasp of reality, he'd start that journey by heading south... Remember, he also posed as an expert on the British education system, 'correcting' me that Britain actually has no government-funded schools and that it was Thatcher who bankrupted the UK pension system over

              • I wouldn't worry about that bit - apart from anything else, the wife and kid are probably imaginary. I certainly hope so for their sakes...

                They're not- but I think you've missed another xenophobic component- family is who I PROTECT.

              • It gets loonier and loonier [slashdot.org].

                On priority basis alone, that's a few million people ahead of the gays in line should my Sweedish Mauser sniper rifle ever be aimed at another human being.

                I can just see all his neighbours going "Hey, by the way, did I mention that me and the missus are gay, and so are all the kids, we're a regular Sodom and Gomorrah here ... we're at the BACK of your list. Just letting you know."

              • Britain's new laws against 'sex tourism',

                I hadn't heard about that. If you guys are just going to keep copying our stupidity, you may as well just apply to become the 51st state.

                -
      • The Remote Control Church does a fairly good Job of painting itself in a bad light.
        Oh , if you are the Devil , Then Hail Satan ;).
        The RC Church is heavily Rooted in the Roman Religion , This is where you get the Celibate priests from and many other parts of the doctrine . ;) Well going by my personal opinion , Christianity was invented in Greece and altered in Rome , but that is another debate entirely .

        Why do people look so deeply to find reasons to hate and discriminate , I prefer to look deeply to find
        • Christianity was invented in Greece and altered in Rome , but that is another debate entirely .

          Indeed. The RC Church, however, is not the bar against which Christianity-as-a-whole should be compared, any more than Zeroastrianism should be the basis for comparing Judaism. (Think about that for a moment, and you'll get my point.)

          I think "Marxist Hacker 42" was *WAY* off base.
        • I thought the Catholic Church made the celibacy decision as a matter of politics. The Church sent priests off to other communities and countries, and wanted to maintain loyalty and primary importance. If priests could get married and have children, their loyalty and interests would shift to their family and community, away from Rome's.
  • >Sex does have an instinctual purpose- but *only* heterosexual sex, and that purpose is for the continuation of the species *only*.

    if i acted according to beliefs like this one, i'd probably be uptight too ;)
    • Sex is also an incredibly important Social tool in primates .
      It has been shown time and again in primate studies that they use it as a means of settling disputes and strengthening societal bonds. We are extremely similar to chimps .
      Personally , I like being Sociable .
      If sex was only for procreation , it would be a lot less enjoyable and doing things that do not promote procreation would also have no intrinsic value and be non enjoyable .
      • Not to mention there is homosexuality among animals. Think of the penguins, won't someone please think of the penguins?

        There could also be transgendered penguins but really how could anyone tell?

        I've always wondered about religious stances on the intersexed and homosexuality/bisexuality. If you're a hermaphrodite and haven't had a gender assignment surgery who is it okay for you to morally have sex with?

        • "If you're a hermaphrodite and haven't had a gender assignment surgery who is it okay for you to morally have sex with?"
          Yourself ?, but even that is a sin ;)

          More seriously(well not by much)( , um Someone of the opposite gender .. so someone that is totally A-sexual I would imagine
        • If you re-read the post, his hatred extends to divorced people, people who have had premarital sex, prostitutes, people who think sex is for more than just making babies, other forms of "immoral sex" (which I guess by his lights includes masturbation and oral sex, since they don't "make babies") - in other words, pretty much everyone past the age of puberty.

          I've always wondered about religious stances on the intersexed and homosexuality/bisexuality. If you're a hermaphrodite and haven't had a gender assig

          • Oh there's lots to comment on in the posting no doubt but I'm trying to avoid discussing it would get ugly pretty fast. I think you did a good job of staying rational, unfortunately I'm pumped full of pregnancy hormones right now and condeming others' lives because they don't conform to one's own idea/concept of what God wants is one of those subjects that sets me off even on a good day.

            Essentially everything posted pisses me off and the diatribe that would follow just my addressing the statement, "all se

            • unfortunately I'm pumped full of pregnancy hormones right now

              Congratulations. I see you now have less than a month to go :-)

              As for the rest, I hear you. I've forwarded it to my local Member of Parliament. I don't think she'll be too impressed with the author's opinions either. I've updated the main post to reflect the laws involved, and what I hope comes of all this - that he not be allowed to visit Canada again, and that someone check up to make sure he's not a danger to himself or anyone else, and

              • The whole concept of anyone even thinking that rape is a source of "sexual pleasure" ... what next - "she wanted it" or "she enjoyed it"?

                Or how about "The only way she can find sexual pleasure is by someone forcing themselves on her because she was molested as a child."

                Thanks, baby countdown has begun :)

  • MH42 has some interesting thoughts and ideas, but this is certainly not one of them.

    This is bigoted and hateful, not to mention inconsistent and hypocritical - how can one claim that one's moral code says that abortion, premarital sex, and homosexuality is bad, yet claim that if it were sanctioned by the church, he'd support killing the "offenders" of his moral compass? Maybe here's an example of someone who needs the guidance of the church in order to keep from committing murder. Scary thought.

    You're r

    • The problem is that the people who need help the most are the ones least likely to seek it.

      I've forwarded his email to my local MP. She's in a better position to make sure it gets to the right people. He needs to be on our joint (US-Canada) watch list so he doesn't come into Canada, and someone needs to check up on his home situation to make sure he's not a threat to his wife and son, or himself.

      Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act prohibits the communication by means of a telecommunication unde

  • I hadn't taken the time to read his journal recently, but that abortion post was just over the top. I have such a scalding flame I have the need to throw his way, but I need to wait till I'm not on a work computer to do that. Just know that I'm an American and a Christian, though maybe not a very good one, but I agree this guy is a complete nut!

    • I have no doubt that the majority of Americans and the majority of Christians are good people. I've never met an American in person that I didn't immediately take a liking to. Even the ones who were having a bad day. Every time I've gone to the States on business or to work, all I've ever met were Americans who had a hard time believing I was from Canada. They always thought that when I said "I'm from up north" that I meant the next county, not the next country. It was fun showing them a drivers' license w

      • I'm just jealous that you Canadians have actually realized what a cool game hockey is. Down here watching traffic drive in a circular pattern is more popular.

        • Did you see "The Colbert Report" last night?

          He did a pretty funny rant on the Canadian hockey team.

          • I'll look for it - it's probably still on TiVo, unless my wife started clearing space for "Sci-Fi Friday".

            • Given that tonight is the season finale of BSG, I have no problems with your wife clearing everything off of the TiVo; just to make sure.
              • The seasone finale? Great. That means the second half of the season will be out on DVD soon.

                A few more weekends of watching the rest of Firefly (2-3 episodes a weekend) and it should just about work out, time-wise.

              • I'll probably get my geek card pulled for saying it, but I haven't watched BSG yet.

                I am holding my breath waiting for Doctor Who.

                • No, you won't get your geek card pulled. When one of my friends tried to get me to watch it, I went, 'Yeah, whatever ..."

                  The movie itself was not the greatest.

                  The TV SERIES IS AWESOME !!!

                  It is, as Time Magazine said, the best show on TV.

                  • That's what my wife is telling me - I'm sure she'll insist that I watch seasons 1 & 2 on DVD before season 3 starts.

                    Really, the only reason I hesitate is that I know I'll get drawn in - I watch too much TV (read: hockey) already, so I try to avoid programs I would enjoy.

                    "Lost" is another one I'll catch some day on DVD.

                • I wouldn't pullyour geek card for not knowing what it would be, and just not seeing it in the first place. My initial expectation was that it would suck massively, and I'm sure many other poeple had the same expectation.

                  I was surprised to see it start out quite good, and then over the episodes it became just stunning. The writing and dramatic twists are un-fucking-believable. The graphics and acting are on par with ANY science fiction movie you have ever seen, and the scripts... the scripts start out good a

                  • I wouldn't pullyour geek card for not knowing what it would be, and just not seeing it in the first place. My initial expectation was that it would suck massively, and I'm sure many other poeple had the same expectation.

                    That was exactly my initial expectation. My wife repeatedly insisted that it didn't royally suck, however she has a fondness for really bad sci-fi shows. So it took me a while to actually believe.

                    Now I'm in the position where I'll probably rent Season 1 and work my way from there.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • We're all the same people.

          We're all in it together. The days when any country can isolate itself are long gone. We all breathe thee same air, drink the same water, and are threatened by the same ecological disasters (bird flu, anyone).

          Of course, all bets are off if you refer to an Aussie as a Brit (the ones I've met were pretty good about it because they knew I was just joking :-)

        • You know, there's actually some truth to her reaction. I grew up in southeastern Pennsylvania, and moving to Texas was quite a culture shock. It really is like a different country down here.

        • Americans think 100 years is a long time; Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance.

  • I put up a JE [slashdot.org] on this not-at-all contentious issue.

    I'd like to know how MH42 derives 'ought' from 'is'? Why should the purpose we give ourselves, and our measure of value and morality align with our genes? I understand that areas that we haven't thought about are likely to align with our biological drives, but there's a word for that: prejudice.

    MH42's failed to explain why we individually should reproduce (this is an overpopulated world). Naturally, someone has to reproduce, but there doesn't appear

    • Thats the problem dealing with people who haven't thought things through to their ultimate conclusion.

      People are always anthropomorphising things. The universe doesn't "care", it has no "morals". That's why its funny that people argue in absolutist terms. For example, they assume that there "right" to free speech is absolute - without realizing that there is no such universal "right" - its only our consent that creates that "right" amongst ourselves.

      I'm sure if the dinosaurs had enough brain power, they

    • I'd like to know how MH42 derives 'ought' from 'is'? Why should the purpose we give ourselves, and our measure of value and morality align with our genes?

      I think at many levels- and don't mind contradiction one bit, which allows me to hold several conflicting theologies in my mind at once (it also means that while some of my theologies do constitute what some people would judge "hate speech", I'm rather unlikely to act upon them- because I've got other conflicting theologies that would *not* support those
      • ...if God created the world, and God is good, then the underlying laws have to be good. An imagined intention behind our biological drive (to bring new life into the world) comes pre-blessed; to oppose such apparent design is Luciferian rebellion against God.
        • Yep- just thought I'd answer the question as well from the direction I had thought of it....which was the angle of DNA (and thus evolution) as the Hand of God in the world- and thus the information contained therein, which is not unlike a very simple 4-instruction machine code being executed in parallel by several billion RNA-based CPUs, would be the ultimate Scripture, both far more perfect and far more personalized than any book can be.

          NOTE, however, that this is an argument on the other side as well- fo
          • I'm sorry, I think that that's a pretty naff argument.

            Reason being: any current behaviour is entirely compatable with our genes. If God's coded correct behaviour in our genes then we are already programmed to act right. No, it has to be not the coding itself, but rather the (projected) intent behind it that makes the moral law.

            Projection is where the human flaw comes in, BTW. How do you know that your projection is the right one? It's going to be either doctorine, imagination, or divine revelation.

            • since peer pressure already strongly favours orthodoxy

              Actually, I think that's where the phobia in homophobia really comes from- peer pressure hasn't supported orthodoxy in 40 years now. Or rather, it still supports orthodoxy, but the new orthodoxy is "do whatever feels good" instead of "do your duty to your family and country". There's been an explosion in previously taboo behavior in the last 40 years, and what has it given us? A new minority, the latchkey children, and a bunch of male children who g
  • You have nerve, I'll give you that. You engage in hate-speech, then call someone else out on it.

    From your own JE:

    Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act prohibits the communication by means of a telecommunication undertaking (including the Internet) of messages that are likely to expose a person to hatred or contempt on the basis of:

    race
    national or ethnic origin
    colour
    religion
    age
    sex
    sexual orientation
    marital status
    family status
    disability
    conviction for which a pardon has been granted

    Maybe you should lea

    • ... I have never advocated the issuing of hunting permits to go after anyone, much less because of their religion. I have also made it clear in MANY cases that I differentiate between the belief and the person holding it.

      Besides, pointing out examples of genocide in the Bible is permitted, as the law specifically provides for citing examples of hate speech when the intent is to bring an end to such hate speech. When fundies try to impose their views on others by calling them "sinners" or "murderers", if

      • Perhaps if you re-read our past threads you may notice I wasn't refering to your (laughable) arguments, but many of your comments which were designed to expose a person to hatred or contempt . Religion in this case. Here's a fine example of this "Canadian defined" hate speech:

        "Next up on Jerry Springer - God, David, Solomon - we ask God to give his take on Solomon's hundreds of wives and concubines".

        Followed by "Jesus Christ, why didn't you condemn slavery, dude?"

        And don't miss our closing interview w

        • All the stuff you cite is clearly to oppose the practices that the Bible advocates, which have included the aforementioned genocide, slavery, etc., as well as other illegal activities, such as polygamy.

          The Bible is fair game. It meets the definition of hate literature, since it does advocate all sorts of stuff that we don't allow, including the ultimate destruction of people of different beliefs. And until someone proves that the God of the Bible exists, attacking a book of fiction falls more along the li

          • You clearly mock the faith of Christians. You clearly intend to communicate hate and contempt. Then you hide behind a 'vail' of "I was bashing the book, not the believers". Sad that you cant see this, but I'm not surprised.

            It's one thing to argue about consistency or interpretation. Its quite another to mock someones beliefs. Change those passages from religious references to racial.

            Honestly, I don't have a problem with you doing it. I just chalk you up as an ignorant closed minded bigot with a clear

            • Just a quick note before everything else: MH42 didn't violate the statute until he emailed a copy of his post to me. Mind you, that's small potatoes compared to what he's admitted to since (see the updates to the top post - check out the list, and keep in mind he says he's done all that - the list includes emailing death threats to the White House, kiddie porn, threatening to kill people ... sick).

              1. Okay, first off, when I post to a Canadian server, I am governed by Canadian law. When I post to an America
              • Every Democrat in America has threated the life of a President at one time or another- that's a total non-starter. As is cartoon kiddie porn- no real kids are harmed by a drawing of Sailor Moon in Hentai.

                However, far more interesting are your three points:
                1. Should you be governed by Canadian law when posting on an American server? Should I? Or should we first respect that we are dealing with sovereign countries, each of which has its own laws and customs?
                I think you failed to respect that the second you
          • Ah, I see- to you it's not hypocritical because the Bible is an example of hate speech? So it's ok to hate the haters? That's what is hypocritical- not the Bible specifically, not Christians specifically, but the law itself is hypocritical- it encourages the hatred of those who hate.

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