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Journal pudge's Journal: Stupid Immigrants 18

Journal by pudge

There's a lot of legitimate points both ways on this immigration debate. Personally, I oppose any action being taken, of any kind, until the borders are enforced, because any other plan will fail if that does not happen. Obviously, many people disagree with that notion, though I cannot fathom why.

But honest people can have honest differences. However, one sign I saw in the marches this weekend -- spray-painted on a large sheet, held up by several immigrants -- showed how many people on that side of the debate do not care about honesty, and could not care less about U.S. sovereignty or law: "WE DID NOT CROSS THE BORDER / THE BORDER CROSSED US."

Uh, not unless you are a lot older than you look, no, it didn't. And even if it did cross the border of your own ancestors, then your parents etc. would have been born here, and you'd be a citizen, and you'd have no reason to complain about this law, since it is only about illegal aliens.

This sign is saying that it doesn't matter what we want with our country, that because they believe they were here first, they have a right to break our laws and steal our social services. They are, probably, of the same disease that afflicts hundreds of thousands of Southern California Mexicans, believing that California should again become a part of Mexico.

I hope they understand that such nonsensical statements displayed for the rest of the country to see don't help their cause any. Of course, if I am any reasonable judge of what their true cause is, then it makes me happy to see that they are so politically inept.

This discussion was created by pudge (3605) for no Foes, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Stupid Immigrants More

Stupid Immigrants

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  • Pudge,

    We can't run around taking signs (or bumper stickers) seriously. When one is forced to distill a 30 page opinion into 5 large red words one has to expect some loss of signal.
    • We can't run around taking signs (or bumper stickers) seriously. When one is forced to distill a 30 page opinion into 5 large red words one has to expect some loss of signal.

      Oh, please. What possible *reasonable* signal could have given birth to this nonsensical one? They started from the position that they have the RIGHT to be here. They do not. And I lived in Southern California for several years, I know that this is a common view there. They think their right to be here is absolute, and that we have
      • Did the Jews have the "right" to be in "Palestine"? Does getting a mandate from another invader provide legitimacy to such a position? Does the UN have the right to determine who owns what land?

        Don't get me wrong. I have no desire or intention to debate the "legitimacy" of Israel's "right to exist". (In fact, I tend to be more of a "Possession is 9/10's of the Law" kind of guy. I draw the line on genocide for either tribe.) What I am pointing out is there is a horde of poverty stricken people, looking
        • THEY believe they have a right to chose to live anywhere they want.

          And they are wrong, obviously.

          They are not the "stupid immigrants".

          If they think that they have a right to be here, yes, they are stupid, obviously.

          their rationalization about their "rights" is no weaker than Israel's, Serbia, Chechnya, Tibet, Taiwan, or your "Manifest Destiny".

          Yes, it actually is significantly weaker.

          You are the "stupid Americans".

          Yawn.

          You swallow gov't propaganda handed down to you for 240 years

          No, I don't.

          and you think ha
    • Most of the people marching about immigration do not have a radical agenda, but there are those that do. The banner distills what such people think pretty well. It isn't fair to paint all those at the protest with the same brush because of this banner, but the mindset the banner represents is cause for concern.
  • For your information, I present to you the MECHa homepage! [panam.edu] Yes they want to return much of the US and Mexico to indigenous control. Not sure why this proposal isn't widely denounced as racist.

    I would guess that 99% of the US is unaware of this agenda. I would even guess that the majority of those marching last weekend are unaware. If people were made aware of this it would create a huge backlash. Not that we need a backlash. We need a workable solution that allows for legal immigration.
    • For your information, I present to you the MECHa homepage!

      Oh yes, I know of it. And I know Democratic gubernatorial candidate Bustamante was a member. Scary stuff.

      I would guess that 99% of the US is unaware of this agenda.

      Yes, as my good friend ellem appears to be.

      If people were made aware of this it would create a huge backlash.

      Right. That is why I said what they did by showing that banner was stupid.

      Not that we need a backlash. We need a workable solution that allows for legal immigration.

      I think we do
      • I agree that we have to have secure borders in order to effectively implement a legal solution. I also can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would use the immigration protests as an opportunity to unmask themselves as being in favor of making much of the US a separate Chicano nation.

    • We need a workable solution that allows for legal immigration.

      Enforcement of the existing laws and tightened border security would be a good start. Existing laws already provide for controlled legal immigration. Yet another amnesty (as some are proposing) is not the answer.

      No nation is secure within its border if it is unwilling to secure that border. With the way things are going, I'm about this far from thinking that we ought to just place automated machine-gun nests along the southern border at

      • The problem with this line of thinking is that the US did NOT have border controls or secure borders for most of its history. Indeed, the USA was the one violating borders of other nations (Indian nations) to "steal" their land. We also tried to seize Canada and have repeatedly violated the Mexican border.

        We're no saints in all this...
        • The problem with this line of thinking is that the US did NOT have border controls or secure borders for most of its history.

          Yes, but for most of its history, there was not a significant security or economic incentive to doing so. Now, there's plenty of both.
          • No significant security incentive?

            War of 1812 (particularly vis-a-vis the indians who allied with the British)
            Mexican War (or Mr. Polk's War)
            The Monroe Doctrine.
            The many Indian Wars.
            Hell, even in WWI there was concerns over Mexico allying with Germany and invading the US.

            We've had border security concerns enough through our history.
            • No significant security incentive?

              That compares to today? Correct. The ones you mention are different in several respects.

              We didn't have concern of people smuggling anything in, the concern was over armies, which you don't need a wall or border guards for, you need an army. So the incentive to border security was much smaller, as anything you do is going to be wasted effort against an army, except posting an army there, which you only can do when it is necessary.

              Also, some of those borders you mention we
    • For your information, I present to you the MECHa homepage! Yes they want to return much of the US and Mexico to indigenous control. Not sure why this proposal isn't widely denounced as racist.

      How terribly pompous of them!

      Their definition of "chicano" begins thusly: "A relatively recent term that has been appropriated by many Mexican descendants as unique and therefore reflective of their unique culture..."

      Mexican, indeed.

      If North America were to be returned to indiginous control, then the region commonly
  • I think that this quote:
    The truth is more important than the facts. - Frank Lloyd Wright
    US architect (1869 - 1959)

    Sums it all up. Somehow.
  • They are, probably, of the same disease that afflicts hundreds of thousands of Southern California Mexicans, believing that California should again become a part of Mexico.
    ...do you think we can give them most of New England, as well?

    {sorry, couldn't resist}

  • "WE DID NOT CROSS THE BORDER / THE BORDER CROSSED US." This sounds like an old joke:

    A Mexican and an American are talking. The American asked the Mexican, "Why do so many Mexicans dislike Americans?"

    The Mexican replied, "Well, you see, not only did you Americans take half of our country, you took the half with all the roads."

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