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Comment Re:We need humility, not arrogance (Score 1) 148

I feel like your recent replies are written by an LLM. They are so predictable. Post with citations to articles or expert opinions? Ignore.

Other opinions that you disagree with? Respond with vague claims to authority ("my studies") and increasingly angry posts calling people "clueless," "stupid," "idiot," "deranged," "cultists," and "demented" -- and that's just within the last 24 hours.

It can be fun to engage in arguments on Slashdot and elsewhere, but are you Ok? You seem to be increasingly agitated and you're not getting into as much technical detail as you used to. I have enjoyed some past exchanges you.

Cheers.

Comment Solutions, anyone? (Score 1) 69

I didn't think so, though it should be some kind of joke how many of them claim they believe in some form of laissez-faire.

I think there should be a progressive profit tax linked to market share, so the natural path to higher retained earnings would be to split your too-dominant company into competing companies. Various metrics for "too dominant", such as lack of customer choice, blockage of wannabe competitors, and even lack of employee choice.

Comment Missing the point of cheap (Score 1) 68

At least that's the joke I'm looking for. The problem with "asymmetric warfare" is that the enemy can make you win just by spending too much on your responses to their cheap weapons.

Getting out of the area for possible funny, but the attacker's advantage is control over the time and place of battle...

Comment Re:But what do they do? (Score 1) 3

Mostly outside my competence and largely outside my area of interest. However I think your larger point is the use of the AI tools to do the work. Where is the line between creativity and the human artist with better tools? Is that a way to formulate the key question?

A couple of the ideas did remind me of speculations about a measurement tool for one-ear tinnitus. The idea would be to generate the matching sound in the other ear and I imagined an array of sliders that control various aspects of the sound. In general it's hard to describe essentially imaginary phenomena, but the idea is to compare a real thing to the tricky thing and as you slide each control you would be assessing whether they are more or less similar.

(But again with limited time to respond.)

Comment Re:We need humility, not arrogance (Score 1) 148

Exactly. There is no credible theory and there is no known mechanism.

False. There is a known mechanism. The human brain.

but there is a lot of indicators that say we probably cannot. Obviously, stupid people do not understand indicators. But the fact of the matter is that we do not understand how general intelligence works physically, that we only observe it ins some humans and that we do not even know how life works

More magical thinking from you. The idea that human-level intelligence is somehow ineffable, undefinable, unknownable is the height of mysticism. This is like some gnostic pastiche of feelings that human-level intelligence is unique and special.

I'll stand with technical advancement every single time as opposed to those who say "impossible."

Comment Re:Human extinction. Is that enough so-what for yo (Score 1) 90

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

Topic seems pretty worn out and Slashdot discussion basically expire in a day, but... Just coincidentally I wound up digging through some old Greg Bear and have a copy of Rogue Planet here. Maybe you know the details there? I think it was intended as a kind of outline for a movie and that some parts of it may have become part of one of the Star Wars movies.

I didn't like Bear's stuff that much, but I seem to be reevaluating some authors these days. I also had a negative view of Orson Scott Card, but I recently discovered that I never read the book that is supposed to have made his reputation, so I'm also reading it now... Much better than I expected.

Comment Re:We need humility, not arrogance (Score 1) 148

Well geez drinkypoo, that was my entire entrance to this conversation!

IMHO, the real magical thinking is the belief that human-type intelligence is unique and can never be replicated, simulated, or surpassed.

I object to the never part! I do happen to believe that human-level AI is possible, and I think there's a _chance_ that it arises during my lifetime, but I'll straight up say that the timing is just a guess that I have no confidence in.

Comment Re:We need humility, not arrogance (Score 1) 148

That the opposite of insightful discussion, because it's the proponents of machine sapience who have the good press now... and it is universally bullshit.

Hah! I guess that is a matter of your perspective. Sam Altman is (rightfully so, as a huge huckster) public enemy #1 with people trying to attack his home with molotov cocktails. Merriam Webster's 2025 word of the year was "slop" as in AI slop. You have large crowds protesting data centers and AI across the country. The entire state of Maine just banned building more. The county I live in just put a total moratorium on new construction. A few weeks ago a bunch of anti-AI pro-environment signs popped up all over the interstate entrances near me. Maybe within silicon valley or the tech industry bubble there is good press, but it's far from universal!

Regardless, I would again recommend reading the article. It was a fun read, especially considering it was written 30+ years ago.

Billions of years of evolution producing a human brain does not speak for or against our ability to simulate one. But so far, we can not do that, so the irrelevance of the question is overshadowed by the irrelevance of asking it. Maybe someday we can, but we can't yet. We don't know enough to even know whether or not we can. That's not an argument against trying, but it's evidence that we still lack enough information to do it, whether we otherwise have the technology or not.

I just don't agree with that. I think it's a fair proposition to say anything that exists can be built. (Ok, I'll admit I'm opening a massive can of worms with that one!)

If starting with your position -- that we don't know enough -- I still stand with the side that says "never" is the weaker position than "possibly."

Comment Re:We need humility, not arrogance (Score 1) 148

I enjoyed his books very much, but no he was not on point.

Really? I thought the article I linked to was an insightful discussion of the topic. e.g.: "For awhile yet, the general critics of machine sapience will have good press. After all, till we hgave hardware as powerful as a human brain it is probably foolish to think we'll be able to create human equivalent (or greater) intelligence. ... it's more likely that devising the software will be a tricky process, involving lots of false starts and experimentation. If so so, the arrival of self-aware machines will not happen till after the development of hardware that is substantially more powerful than humans' natural equipment." Etc. I would highly suggest reading it.

That is also magical thinking, but no more so than the idea that by throwing circuits with complexity similar to that which we have discovered in the human brain so far, we will inevitably create consciousness. That is not just wishful thinking, it's clueless. We keep finding more complexity in the brain, so it's still a moving target which is enough to defeat such an argument on its own, and transistors are not neurons which is also enough to prove it's a folly.

I think you're shifting the goalposts a bit here and not responding to what I actually said. I said that it is magical thinking to believe that "human-type intelligence is unique and can never be replicated, simulated, or surpassed."

For one thing, I think it is possible that human-level intelligence has evolved elsewhere. I don't see why we would have to be unique.

Secondly, I don't know how to define consciousness, and I don't know how to define it in an artificial context. I don't know if consciousness is necessary for intelligence.

I also don't know how long transistors will be our top computing technology? I guess we're within a decade of no longer being able to shrink circuitry, as we are close to coming up on physical boundaries that we don't know a way around. I have never claimed that silicon chips are going to to lead to superintelligence or that LLMS are going to lead to superintelligence.

What I do know is that it's an unimaginably massive universe out there. To me, it seems foolhardy to make claims that something can never happen. We are barely a century into the electric age. We are well under a century into the era of integrated circuits. Who knows what comes next? I don't feel comfortable saying "never" in that context!

I also know that exponential change is intuitively difficult to understand.

If billions of years of evolution can produce a human brain, why can't we simulate one? If not now, in 100 years? 500 years? 10,000 years?

Comment Re:We need humility, not arrogance (Score 2) 148

True. That "singularity" idea is completely disconnected from reality. It is essentially a belief that a machine will become God, and it is a belief with absolutely no supporting evidence.

When you just make stuff up and argue against a strawman, it becomes awfully easy to win arguments.

The term "singularity" used in a technological sense goes back to the early days of computing--Von Neumann (this was news to me!). Interestingly, in 1993 NASA held a conference on "cyberspace" and future issues. https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/3001391. Link to the paper https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19940022855/downloads/19940022855.pdf

Vernor Vinge:

Within 30 years, we will have the technological means to create superhuman inteligence. Shortly after, the human era will be ended. Is such progress avoidable?"

Let's see..1993 + 30 = 2023. A few months after ChatGPT 3.5 was released! A funny coincidence (or not?), and nobody would claim that ChatGPT is superhuman, but Vinge was on point. You might read the article, it's (deliberately) provocative, but it's interesting.

You frequently accuse those you disagree with of magical thinking. IMHO, the real magical thinking is the belief that human-type intelligence is unique and can never be replicated, simulated, or surpassed.

AI growth has more or less tracked computing capacity over the decades. I'm excited to see what comes next.

Comment Re:We need humility, not arrogance (Score 1) 148

For your information, the very definition of "bug" is "implementation does not match specification". There is no other one that makes the least bit of sense.

What hubris!

Knuth: "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."

Here's an ACM article on the epistemology of bugs: https://dl.acm.org/doi/full/10.1145/3662730

What's your definition of "insight"?

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