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Comment: Re:Photographer should say "Go ahead" (Score 1) 602

The perspective is the DMCA is flatly unconstitutional by design.

I accuse you of a crime. You get punished for that crime until you can prove otherwise.

No... It's "I accuse you of a crime and provide sufficient evidence that you have committed the crime - the URL of your page with my copyrighted photo, and my sworn statement of ownership of that photo. You get punished for that crime unless you assert that you're innocent, at which point your site returns and we can fight it out in court. And if you can prove I was lying in my sworn statement, you can get lots of money in damages."

There's nothing unconstitutional about that. This isn't criminal, it's civil... there's no requirement for a jury to find you guilty first.
And consider, if I accuse you of stealing, or drug trafficking, or whatnot, you can get arrested and held, potentially without bail, until trial. Isn't that "punishing" you? And yet, it's certainly constitutional.

Comment: Re:As opposed to patents that cover algorithms? (Score 1) 162

by Theaetetus (#40104321) Attached to: Supreme Court Orders Do-Over On Key Software Patents

What is the significant difference between evaluating an algorithm in your head, and doing the same thing with computer assistance, which would justify a patent? What is the novel, non-obvious change in the state of the art which such a patent would document?

You're confusing two different things here. When a patent claims "[super novel and non-obvious technique] performed by a computer," it's not saying that the computer is the point of novelty... and there's also nothing that requires every element of a claim to be independently novel and nonobvious. Hell, if that were true, you could never claim an improvement: "A better mousetrap, comprising..." and someone would jump up and say "mousetraps aren't new!" Similarly, you could create a brand new chemical composition or drug, never before seen in nature, and someone would jump up and say "that's just made of basic elements like hydrogen! It's not new!"

Additionally, you're also confusing two different statutes. 35 USC 102 and 103 are the ones that say patents have to be novel and nonobvious. 35 USC 101 - what we're talking about - is the one that says that even a novel, nonobvious idea is unpatentable if it's not directed to patent-eligible subject matter.

We agree that it's not the algorithm, or the computer; what's left?

Again, there's two different requirements here. The computer makes it patent-eligible. The novel, nonobvious algorithm makes it, well, novel and nonobvious.

More specifically, what is it about "evaluate this algorithm with a computer" which would make it patentable, which would not also apply to "evaluate this algorithm with pencil and paper"?

And now you've moved the goalposts back - the computer. Because it's tied to a computer, it's patent-eligible. The pencil and paper version is not patent-eligible, even if it's the most novel and non-obvious algorithm ever invented.

I can invent a new automobile transmission, and the fact that I wasn't the one who invented the automobile is irrelevant. You've created a new rule whereby each industry gets one patent by the founder of that industry, and any improvements in that industry are forever unpatentable because they incorporate something not invented by the applicant.

This is an obvious straw-man argument. There is no new rule prohibiting patents which build on prior patents.

Then why did you bring up this: "The general-purpose computer was not invented by the applicant" (emphasis in original). I agree with your new statement here - there is no rule that that's a requirement, so it's irrelevant that the computer was not invented by the applicant.

The only rule being applied here, which is hardly new, is that the patent must add something to the state of the art which is both novel and non-obvious. The automobile in your example is not novel, but your transmission is presumably both novel and non-obvious.

Exactly.

The patent would cover just the transmission, not the automobile.

Depends on the claim. It could also cover an automobile including the transmission.

On the other hand, if you tried to get a patent on combining an existing transmission with an existing automobile design, I would expect such an application to be summarily rejected unless there was something both novel and non-obvious about the concept or method of combining the two.

Agreed.

This is where software patents fail. You have two pre-existing components, the algorithm and the general-purpose computer. The patent application only covers combining these two existing elements together in the most obvious way possible, as running algorithms is the sole purpose of a computer.

Except that the algorithm is not necessarily pre-existing. If it is, you can find prior art showing it. If you can't, then you can't simply wave your hands and say "but it's software, all software is pre-existing." Rejecting a patent as being obvious requires evidence.

Can you do the same and show that the software industry has stagnated because of patent disputes?

Actually, yes. For one obvious example, just look at the areas where interoperability has suffered due to Microsoft's FAT filesystem patents, or patents on media codecs, or lossless compression algorithms, or rendering techniques.

It's true. My FAT-formatted USB stick won't run at all on my Mac. And I still have to view everything in vector graphics since rendering techniques are patented.

Sorry, do you have any concrete examples of this?

Software patents are also inherently incompatible with free and open-source software; any license fee whatsoever will block legal free software development in that area.

I fail to see how that's an argument for or against them - they're incompatible with the idea that all software should be free, but so what? I don't necessarily buy into that argument.

Driving people to reinvent the wheel, often in an inferior way, isn't progress.

On the contrary, the greater variety of wheels we have - wheels that will enter the public domain in a relatively short time - greatly increases the rate of progress.

Start-ups and other small for-profit organizations have a similar problem; they don't have the portfolio necessary to enter into the standard cross-licensing agreements, or the financial resources for drawn-out patent fights in the courts. Their only real option is to settle for being bought out (under duress) by an larger incumbent.

And you think abolishing patents would change any of that?

It's obvious that patents, and especially software patents, impose costs and place roadblocks in the way of innovation. It is hoped, but not proven (and not for lack of trying), that the incentive of a state-backed monopoly is enough to compensate for this. What we lack is an alternate world to compare against, one with the same initial conditions but without patents.

Not entirely true... we can look at countries that haven't had patent laws until very recently, such as Vietnam, China, Brazil, or India, and see if they're starting to innovate more now. "But wait," you say, "those are all poor countries." That's okay - we can also look at Switzerland, which intentionally didn't have a functioning patent system until relatively recently. How much innovation was coming out of Switzerland? None... that's why they didn't grant patent rights. How about now? Actually, quite a bit. There are many Swiss companies doing amazing work in pharma and bioinformatics.

If Google Glasses makes it to market, then you can publicly post a retraction statement that patents don't stifle innovation. Sounds good? ... Of course you won't agree to that...

Exactly, because no retraction would be justified. That a particular product eventually makes it to market does not imply that patents do not stifle innovation—which is not the same as saying that no innovation can occur, only that the patents impede innovation rather than contributing to it. To decide that we would need a parallel world without patents to compare against, and we unfortunately do not have access to such a world. All we have are guesses regarding the relative costs and benefits, the costs being much concrete.

Then, lacking such an alternate world, we defer to our elected legislators, who felt that "patents" were better than "no patents". If we wish to go the other way, we should elect new legislators.

Comment: Re:As opposed to patents that cover algorithms? (Score 1) 162

by Theaetetus (#40103721) Attached to: Supreme Court Orders Do-Over On Key Software Patents

Every dollar spent vying for monopoly control of an idea, is a dollar not spent creating new ideas. The chilling effect of Intellectual Serfdom laws - felt keenly by those who are "skilled in the art" of creating software, as opposed to the art of litigation - is indeed difficult to quantify. However some the direct financial cost of the patent regime, and its cancerous growth rate in recent years, are documented in this nicely-produced infographic.

It's true, patent licensing and litigation is expensive. You know what's also expensive - product liability. Or medical malpractice. In fact, any time someone loses a lawsuit, it's expensive... and that money could be spent creating new ideas instead. Clearly, what we need to do is abolish the entire court system, right?

Comment: Re:As opposed to patents that cover algorithms? (Score 1) 162

by Theaetetus (#40103337) Attached to: Supreme Court Orders Do-Over On Key Software Patents

How do you explain MPEG-LA and H.26x then?

They're video compression algorithms. I thought we were talking about patents.

that is ALL using math for compression or decompression of a file, yet they've managed to get over 2000+ patents filed on various parts of H.26x. if they were for how a chip can do these calcs efficiently then i'd agree, but as it is no matter how you compress or decompress a video you will most likely step in the H.26x minefield.

So you agree that the base ideas would be patentable if they were embodied in a hardware chip? Then how is that different from embodied in software and executed by a hardware chip?

Comment: Re:As opposed to patents that cover algorithms? (Score 1) 162

by Theaetetus (#40101913) Attached to: Supreme Court Orders Do-Over On Key Software Patents

How about Apple's "slide to unlock" patent?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,657,849.PN.&OS=PN/7,657,849&RS=PN/7,657,849

"...detecting contact with the touch-sensitive display while the device is in a user-interface lock state; moving an unlock image along a predefined displayed path on the touch-sensitive display in accordance with the contact, wherein the unlock image is a graphical, interactive user-interface object with which a user interacts in order to unlock the device; transitioning the device to a user-interface unlock state if the detected contact corresponds to a predefined gesture; and maintaining the device in the user-interface lock state if the detected contact does not correspond to the predefined gesture."

Basically you touch an unlock image and slide it along the path shown on the screen to unlock. Yes, there is a physical device involved, but this is fundamentally a concept rather than an implementation of the concept.

But, as you note, there's a physical device involved. It's not just a mathematical algorithm. You could not possibly infringe that claim with a pad of paper and a pen or by doing math in your own head.

Comment: Re:As opposed to patents that cover algorithms? (Score 1) 162

by Theaetetus (#40101811) Attached to: Supreme Court Orders Do-Over On Key Software Patents

The reference is in the story that a patent troll sued Wild Tangent claiming they had the right to display an ad on a computer screen and needed to pay up.

Putting an ad on a screen is an abstract process already done in television so why is it magically different if its on a computer?

Do you have a patent number we can look at?

Comment: Re:As opposed to patents that cover algorithms? (Score 1) 162

by Theaetetus (#40101807) Attached to: Supreme Court Orders Do-Over On Key Software Patents

http://www.google.com/patents/US6384822

This seems pretty "pure mathematics" to me. I suppose the phosphors of a monitor count as a physical material, but I think that's stretching it a bit.

Claim 1: "1. A 3-D graphics method performed by a computer for real-time rendering of shadows in 3-D scenes to be displayed on a computer monitor..."

The claim explicitly requires a computer and a monitor. That's not pure mathematics. The pure mathematical algorithm is outside of the claims - if you did it in your head, by definition, you could not possibly infringe the patent.

Comment: Re:running on a computer is still pure math (Score 1) 162

by Theaetetus (#40101791) Attached to: Supreme Court Orders Do-Over On Key Software Patents

If the only input is data and the only output is data (rather than running a motor controller or servo or something) then I would argue that we're talking about an algorithm, i.e. pure math.

The fact that it runs on a computer is beside the point, you could in theory do it with pen and paper or in your head.

On the contrary, if the patent claims require a computing device, then you cannot, by definition, do it in your head. You could perform the same algorithm, but you wouldn't infringe the patent - hence the patent isn't claiming the algorithm.

Comment: Re:As opposed to patents that cover algorithms? (Score 2) 162

by Theaetetus (#40101775) Attached to: Supreme Court Orders Do-Over On Key Software Patents

OK, we can go through these patents, if you want:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=6563928

Claims must be read in light of the specification as it would be understood by one of ordinary skill in the art. The "broadest possible reading" of a term applies during prosecution, but in litigation, the claims must be interpreted more narrowly based on the spec. In this case, the claims recite correspondents, which the spec describes as including a random number generator and performing computing functions. While it's possible to read these as humans, I think a more reasonable reading is that they're computers.

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=6782100
Tell me if you can find a claim that even vaguely refers to a machine, because I cannot.

That one's even easier. Claim 1 recites a cryptosystem, which is illustrated in FIG. 2 including an ALU and RAM.

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=5854759
Again, I am not seeing a claim that mentions a machine, but maybe you can point it out for me.

Claim 1: "1. A method of generating in a digital data processor..."

The ball is in your court; tell us how these patents are somehow not actually patents on pure math.

There you go. In all cases, pure math - or performing the steps in your head or on a pad of paper - would not be covered by the patent claims. Therefore, they can't be claiming pure math.

"You must have an IQ of at least half a million." -- Popeye

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