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Submission + - Wind Power is Cheaper than Coal, Leaked Report Shows 4

merbs writes: A leaked report shows that wind is the hands-down cheapest energy source in Europe, beating the presumably dirt-cheap coal and gas by a mile. Conventional wisdom holds that clean energy is more expensive than its fossil-fueled counterparts. Yet truly honest cost comparisons show that renewable energy sources are often cheaper than their carbon-heavy competition. The report demonstrates that if you were to take into account mining, pollution, and adverse health impacts of coal and gas, wind power would be the cheapest source of energy, period.

Comment Re:phase change (Score 1) 295

Please! We want to know the real truth behind these plots! Do you think Osama collude with the owner of the building? Do you think there was a plant in the white house who is manipulating documents? This is all very fascinating and I look forward to learning the real truth that Wikipedia won't tell us!

Comment Re:weev (Score 5, Interesting) 728

The same technique is used by Marc Morano to silence climate scientists:

Whether one agrees with that message or not, there’s no denying that its tone is drastically different from much of the email Hayhoe has been receiving after Limbaugh’s denunciation, Gingrich’s decision to kill her book chapter, and the repeated publication of her email address by an influential conservative blogger who ceaselessly campaigns against climate science and climate action, Mark Morano. - http://texasclimatenews.org/wp...

Morano has sicked his minions on her for the crime of publicly discussing her scientific findings. Here is an example of the vitriol she is now receiving: Nazi Bitch Whore Climatebecile [] You stupid bitch, You are a mass murderer and will be convicted at the Reality TV Grand Jury in Nuremberg, Pennsylvania. AGW has never been anything but a Rockefeller depopulationary eugenical scam. [] After the Grand Jury indicts you, I would like to see you convicted and beheaded by guillotine in the public square, to show women that if they are going to take a man’s job, they have to take the heat for mass murder, just like the men do when they get caught. If you have a child, then women in the future will be even more leery of lying to get ahead, when they see your baby crying next to the basket next to the guillotine.

Comment Re:phase change (Score 1) 295

Wikipedia thinks: "When the North Tower collapsed, debris fell on the nearby 7 World Trade Center building (7 WTC), damaging it and starting fires. These fires burned for hours, compromising the building's structural integrity, and 7 WTC collapsed at 5:21 p.m."

But I'd love to hear the real truth about the 9/11 attacks and Obama's birth certificate. Please elucidate.

“What about building 7?” A social psychological study of online discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories

Comment Re:phase change (Score 1) 295

Jane1:

Kinda hard to argue with the owner of the building when he publicly says he did it on purpose!

vs Jane2:

I did not state that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job. I merely stated that evidence indicates ...

Who to believe?

I did not claim Obama faked his birth certificate. I DID state that the document posted on the internet by the Whitehouse as Obama's birth certificate has been digitally manipulated

Seems like a distinction without a difference. Not sure we should use you as a barometer on which way the term "denier" points.

Comment Re:Everyone should just say "interesting" (Score 1) 295

We have had really good measurements to about 700m deep for decades. About a decade ago a discrepancy was noticed between the radiative imbalance at the top of the atmosphere and the amount of warming measured. Some scientists (who believed in conservation of energy) suggested that there may be warming that we have been unable to measure. One possible location was the deep ocean (below 700m). The Argo network was deployed. It was able to measure to depths of 2000m. It showed that the deep ocean below 700m was indeed warming and accounted for a great deal of the discrepancy.

This study shows that ice melt and the warming measured by the Argo network account for almost all of sea level rise. So warming below 2000m cannot be significant. Does that somehow show that the ocean between 700m and 2000m didn't warm? Of course not. In fact it relies on the deep ocean warming measurements to close the sea level rise budget. So rather than contradict previous research, this study actually confirms it. Maybe you didn't read this far down:

Recent studies reporting deep-ocean warming were, in fact, referring to the warming in the upper half of the ocean but below the topmost layer, which ends about 0.4 mile (700 meters) down.

Comment Re:Everyone should just say "interesting" (Score 1) 295

If the "missing" energy were in the upper ocean we would have known about it long ago, because we've been keeping upper ocean temperature records for decades. .

As this study shows, the missing heat recently found in the deep ocean between 700m and 2000m is required to account for observed sea level rise. So not only does the increased warming in the deep ocean close the radiative imbalance budget, it also closes the sea level rise budget. So yes, the law of conservation of energy is not challenged by this new finding.

Comment Re:Yesterday Oceans were warming more than predict (Score 1) 295

Actually the picture is pretty cohesive, but was presented rather poorly by bigwheel. Yesterday the deep oceans (between 700m and 2000m) were warming more than expected. Today we find that if you add the warming we have measured down to 2000m with the melting we have measured at the poles, you can account for almost 100% of sea level rise. We can then probably conclude that there is little or no warming below 2000m. It looks like Bigwheel may have been confused by the word 'deep', even though the distinction is made clear by the article that he posted: "Some recent studies reporting deep-ocean warming were, in fact, referring to the warming in the upper half of the ocean but below the topmost layer, which ends about 0.4 mile (700 meters) down."

Comment Re:phase change (Score 1) 295

This study actually confirms previous measurements for warming between 700m and 2000m. It finds that if you add the warming in the top 700m with the recently measured warming in the 'deep' ocean between 700m and 2000m - if you add that to ice melt you account for all of the measured sea level rise. The budget is balanced. This new study provides an even more cohesive picture!

Ten years ago if we looked at the imbalance between incoming and outgoing radiation and compared that with measured warming we found that we did not have enough warming to account for the radiative imbalance. Some scientists (who believed in conservation of energy) concluded that there must be additional warming that we have not measured. Two places we had poor measurements were the ocean below 700 meters and at the poles. Over the last decade we have been able to measure warming between 700 and 2000 meters as well as the poles and the heat budget is balanced.

This new paper confirms the warming in the 'deep' ocean between 700m and 2000m - otherwise we would not be able to account for the sea level rise that we observe.

Comment Re:phase change (Score 2) 295

"Coauthor Felix Landerer of JPL noted that during the same period warming in the top half of the ocean continued unabated, an unequivocal sign that our planet is heating up. Some recent studies reporting deep-ocean warming were, in fact, referring to the warming in the upper half of the ocean but below the topmost layer, which ends about 0.4 mile (700 meters) down"

What this study found was that melting ice and warming of the first 2000 meters accounted for virtually all of the sea level rise. Nice bit of editorializing on the part of bigwheel to suggest that this new data has any impact on "why global warming appears to have slowed in recent years." This does not suggest that the ocean has warmed less than we had previously thought. Only that the warming is occurring primarily in the first 2 kilometers of depth.

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