SIP vs. Skype, Making the "Open" Choice

techie34290 writes "If you were to make the choice between SIP and Skype for Linux, which one would you go for? Matt Hartley from MadPenguin.org says to opt for SIP. Why? "One tidbit of information that most people are not likely aware of is that when you install the Skype client, it will drain system resources by running as a supernode from time to time. Granted, this is not always the case; however, the very idea of my PC having its resources tied up for someone else's phone call is frankly maddening to me."

So that means...

[Anonymous Coward]

the very idea of my PC having its resources tied up for someone else's phone call is frankly maddening to me."

So that means you don't use bittorrent either?

Control freak...

[Vellmont]

the very idea of my PC having its resources tied up for someone else's phone call is frankly maddening to me

This strikes me as an attitude of someone who can't stand the idea that he's not in control of everything (which you never are). The real question is, does it use any significant resources that effect what you're trying to do at the time? Frankly I don't really care about 20-50 megabytes of memory, or 5% of my processor usage, or even 100% of my idle processor usage. Those numbers are all low enough that you'd more than likely never notice or miss those resources. I would be concerned if the app started taking up hundreds of megabytes of memory, or 30-40% of my processor time, or locked up system resources that interfere with other apps I'm running. So which is it? The author didn't provide us with any of that information, only the extremist position that ANY useage of his computers resources that wasn't for him was unacceptable. What a useless article.

jabbin

[msh104]

I recently discoffered jabbin.
http://www.jabbin.com/int/ [jabbin.com] it's free as in speech, and has voip support.
perhaps he should give it a try. there are windows, linux and mac releases.

Re:IAX?

[ncw]

Yes!

Sip plays merry hell with firewalls. Don't even think about it unless you've got a VPN back to your sip server! If you have then it works great. The new Nokia E70 phone connects to our office Asterisk server via SIP and works very well ( http://europe.nokia.com/phones/e70 [nokia.com] ).

IAX2 goes through NATed firewalled links just fine. It is much easier to configure if you are on the move (or your users are).

I wouldn't touch Skype with the proverbial barge pole given its closed nature.

Re:the very idea

[Have Blue]

He'd prefer that the supernode feature be removed entirely and Skype calls only ever consume the resources of the consenting parties directly involved in it.

Why I initially chose Skype...

[emag]

One word: laziness

Longer reason:

I really didn't want to have to learn the intricacies of a protocol in order to get everything up and running. I'd been seeing various things that at least *implied* that I'd have to start mucking about with firewall rules in order to get SIP running. This was something I had zero interest in doing at the time. I also wanted something that would be cross-platform in an easy manner (I was looking at this so my manager & I could keep in touch while we both worked from home, without using cell minutes or LD charges....him Windows, me Linux).

Then I needed to be able to call out to POTS lines. Enter SkypeOut. No monthly charges, just a relatively low per-minute charge (which was OK, I still, after 16 months, haven't used the initial 10 Euros I put in). Then I needed people from work to be able to contact me, and I didn't want to give them my cell or house lines. Enter SkypeIn. $38 for a full year, with voicemail. Usable anywhere. That was a big draw. So long as I had a network connection, I could head off to a family member's place for a long weekend out-of-state, and still be reachable. No problemo spending 8 hours with sun and surf in the background and me being several hundred miles away...

And then things soured... I tried to renew my SkypeIn number. Failed. Again and again and again. Skype's purchase process is rather....opaque. They use a variety of 3rd party payment processors, and all Skype can tell you is "success" or "failure" until you start bitching about being unable to pay. Though don't expect an immediate response, as it will take up to 4 days. And then, if you're like me, you'll be told that your NATed laptop running Linux on a static IP with no proxies is "an anonymous proxy", and be told to check you IE settings to ensure you're not using a proxy (yes, IE settings in Linux...). You'll be told to, get this, try a different ISP. And even though you'll have already tried multiple credit cards, and multiple browsers with them, you'll be told to try another credit card, or another browser. Or worse (IMNSHO), another payment method that until just recently announced, had practically NO consumer protections (way to pay, pal!).

Ultimately, I ended up with access to work's terminal server, and after one too many complaints from the muckety-mucks who'd already been given my cell number (remember I didn't want to do that?) because I couldn't renew my SkypeIn, I decided that I could make a business case for using company resources for attempting to renew. And....it worked. NFC why, but it did.

So, now I have about another year to come up with another solution that'll work for me on random networks, doesn't require special hardware (other than a headset or speakers+microphone), and doesn't have recurring monthly fees, as I don't actually make calls every day, or even once a week. SIP still gives me a headache just trying to wrap my head around. Trying to figure out WHICH providers offer WHAT parts of what Skype offers as an all-in-one package is something I tend to just grow bored trying to research. Some of the more promising-looking clients seem to be geared towards specific providers, while others leave you trying to guess who to go with. Ick. I really don't want to stick with Skype having experienced the bad side of things, but I'm afraid momentum an just how unfocused SIP solutions are for what I want will force me to stay.

(Let's not even get into the whole Skype's Linux client lagging way behind their Windows client, with the Mac client having leapfrogged Linux at some point. There HAVE been a few betas that have finally brought support for ALSA, and some UI improvements. Still miles behind Windows & Mac, which is frustrating, but there's been at least some progress now almost a year after their last major Linux release)

Re:So, now the shoe is on the other foot?

[Lussarn]

Skype is a black hole. Sure I could open it up in my firewall but why would I? As I understand it skype could easily use a couple of gigs of bandwidth every month with no way to control it or even measure the usage. I could probably set up a couple of QOS rule to tame it down but that would take time, and the only benifit I would get is letting an unknown protocol connect to my home computer through a closed source app.

I'm also sick and tired of installing all these proprietary apps, each with it's own protocol and from the looks of it every couple of years there is the next big thing you need to install. Not because it's actully better but because someone you need to write/talk to has it. No thanks, we need something open and documented. Then every company could make their own client, brand it, sell it and popup commercials all day long as they wish. And I could use something smaller OSS that suits my needs.

And I would gladly contribute both bandwidth and cpu usage. But never for skype as it stands now.

Re:Isn't that the point?

[Fordiman]

Actually, the only reason this is done is that, for two computers without the ability to open up a listening port to Internet, they have trouble contacting one another. So, Skype uses one of its members as a through-way for a call. Calls done in this manner are reduced in quality to reduce the third-party's overhead (since you're essentially leeching off another human to do it).

It would be very nice to find a way to make a TCP/IP connection without having a listening port. I believe it could be done, still using the third party for setting up the connection, but using a spoof of some nature.

A possible way is: Caller (C) requests a connection via the Skype Network (SN) to Reciever (R). R is connected to SN, but has no incoming connection capabilities, so SN requests a transitional connection from a third party (T). C and R both call T. R tells T which local port its connection is on. T spoofs C, telling C that its IP address and port are those of T. T also spoofs R, telling it that its IP address is that of C, connecting on R's port(R effectively becomes the server, the router's outgoing port becoming the incoming port). R and C, knowing this will happen, do all the syn/ack stuff manually.

I'm not well enough versed in TCP/IP to do this (or even say whether it can be done), but perhaps someone is.

Re:Isn't that the point?

[Sylver Dragon]

I can confirm that this is occuring. I work at a University, and while they do not, technically, ban Skype outright, they might as well. The reason for this is that Skype likes to put computers on our network into supernode mode (considering the bandwidth here, I understand why it happens). The problem is that it starts eating bandwidth like mad, and reduces bandwidth available for other users. So, in order to combat the bandwidth hogging, Skype traffic is throttled at the firewall; it is still allowed to connect and use some bandwidth, but you can forget video conferencing. And before I get any of the "but, but, but...student's rights" type posts: we are a private university, i.e. no public funds; the students have the right to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Actually, this is a rather timely article, as I am working on setting up a video conferencing room and need to find good free/cheap options.

There are reasons to use closed SKype

[sideswipe76]

To the utter disdain of companies like Comcast and many telecom people in China, no one has truly figured out how to discern that there is actually skype traffic on their network much less block it -- this goes for everyone from a nosey IT admin, the govt, or an unfriendly ISP. On the otherhand, Comcast has put the kabosh on SIP from Vonage because it is easy to identify. Skype should continue to improve on the efficiency and stealth of their protocol and improve the features of their client. Sadly, I think with eBay now owning Skype they may have lost that innovative spark.