Xbox 360 adds 1080p Support

jayintune writes "2old2play has received news from the TGS (Tokyo Game Show) that Microsoft plans on releasing an update that will enable 1080p support on their Xbox 360 console. From the article, "users can expect 1080p upscaling immediately on current games and DVDs while native 1080p on compatible HD DVD titles." What could this mean for Sony now that MS has 1080p as well?" Now honestly, show of hands: who has their console (not PC!) connected to a display device capable of 1080p? Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?

1080p, me!

[pjr.cc]

I have a nice big plasma hooked up to a digital tuner... and in Australia digital tv is very prevalent (as in, every station that used to transmit analog now also transmit's digital with very very few exceptions). On top of that alot of progs are 1080p, and a htpc looks great at that res too:)

more importantly...

[maynard]

Is that 1080p/24, 1080p/30, or 1080p/60? Because 1080p/30 has the same bandwidth requirements as 1080i/60 (duh). I haven't seen from either Sony or MS any technical specs which indicate real 1080p/60 support, even over hdmi.

Re:(Raises hand!)

[arivanov]

In that case what you should be looking is the supported res and if it is supported on the DVI (or analogue VGA) inputs. These are quite different from the HD ones. For example, recent JVC LT26 LCD tvs support HD 1080p, but their native panel resolution is actually 1366x768. Frankly, I have no idea what is the supported frequency and resolution on the VGA input as it is not written anywhere.

Re:random number with a letter at the end

[Constantine XVI]

1080 lines of resolution, progressive scan (shows every line in every frame). You can thank me later.

Re:1080p, me!

[drsmithy]

I have a nice big plasma hooked up to a digital tuner... and in Australia digital tv is very prevalent (as in, every station that used to transmit analog now also transmit's digital with very very few exceptions). On top of that alot of progs are 1080p, and a htpc looks great at that res too:)

No-one in Australia transmits anything at 1080p. ABC and SBS "HD" are 576p, although they have almost no "real" HD content - most all of it is upsampled SD. Seven is also 576p, although I think their "HD" broadcasts actually have 1080i sources. Both Nine and Ten broadcast in 1080i (even sport, which kind of sucks).

Re:7 Years Late

[EGSonikku]

err, you do realise 1080p is 1920x1080 right?

Re:Ha!

[stuffisgood]

Errr....they did....in the last dashboard update.

Re:What does this mean for monitors?

[mattsday]

Assuming you'd used the VGA input, you'd simply select the best resolution in the xbox dashboard (currently 1360x768 or 1280x1024 highest)

Matt

Re:more importantly...

[mitchskin]

I've got the Westinghouse LVM-37w3 hooked up to a PC over DVI, and it works great. It's doing 1920x1080 @ 60hz; when I watch DVDs the computer is doing the 24fps->60fps conversion. This does introduce some judder; it seems like the LCD ought to be able to do 24hz or a multiple thereof but I don't know how to do it.

The judder, by the way, is only rarely noticeable and is pretty much the same everywhere else AFAIK, but it would be nice to get rid of it. The software infrastructure for detecting the frame rate of the source and auto-switching the display mode just isn't there though. In other words, I want it to be 60hz most of the time, and automatically switch to 24 or 48 hz when I'm watching a DVD that originally came from a (24 fps) film source, but not when I'm watching a DVD that originally came from a (30 fps) video source. Getting the display and X and the media players to work together to do that is a little way off though AFAICT.

This is my X modeline:
ModeLine "1920x1080" 138.5 1920 1968 2000 2080 1080 1082 1087 1111
The standard autodetection/setup in Fedora Core 4 didn't set up the display right, but after trying it, I found the above numbers by looking in the X log output.

1080p not as expensive as you think

[James Lewis]

Actually, if you really want 1080p on the cheap (like I did) you can get it for a bit over $1000 by building your own LCD projector. Just use a laptop WUXGA screen. I've done this and am very happy with the results. When comparing it to a commercial projector there are downsides: size of the projector, light distribution isn't totally even (or as bright), colors aren't perfectly reproduced, contrast isn't as great. However, for the price it can't be beat IMHO. Those drawbacks aren't anything I actually notice when watching a movie, it feels just like I'm in a theater . I learned how to do it at the lumenlab forums: www.lumenlab.com

Re:1080p - NO ONE has that

[mitchskin]

I'm writing this using an LCD panel that is 1920 actual physical pixels across and 1080 actual physical pixels vertically. It cost less than $1400 to my door; well in the consumer range. This display (the Westinghouse LVM-37w3) is actually the second generation; the previous one (the LVM-37w1) came out more than a year ago.

The AVS Forum threads on these things are huge--there must be a fair number of people buying them.

It's not technically a TV since there's no tuner, but that doesn't matter for the xbox.

Re:I have 1080p already but..

[rsk]

A lot of folks out there don't understand the differences between I (interlaced) and P (progressive), which they shouldn't, it's too detailed, but for folks that do it's easier to understand why outputting 720p on a 1080p set is going to look better then interlacing the signal then asking the TV to deinterlace it.

Also a lot of folks with new HD stuff don't give their TV scalers enough credit, these things are good, most of them excellent, especially in the big-brand sets. So doing what you are doing is definately the smarter way to go for a crisper un-raped signal.

Re:3rd question

[Anonymous Coward]

Both the VGA cable and the Component cable do support 1080p. The only issue is that most of the 1080p TVs sold do not support 1080p over component. There are some [westinghousedigital.com] exceptions [samsung.com], but generally they don't. But there's a lot more TVs that accept VGA and DVI, which will handle 1080p fine.

This still doesn't answer the ICT question of course, so we should assume that ICT protected movies wont work. It sucks, but the less DRM support around, the better.

Re:Fancy but no more

[timeOday]

It is just Microsoft stealing bragging rights from Sony. One less way for Sony to argue the PS3 is worth the high price.

Re:Interlaced Vs Progressive

[Kjella]

Both have the same amount of detail, as they have the same resolution. But the interlaced version will feel smoother, because it's updating the screen twice as often.

Except it's updating half the lines, meaning any object moving will have the jagged edges of interlaced content. That fucks a lot more with your mind than a smooth line moving at 30fps. Try playing any video game (probably the most intense need for "smooth" you'll have) in interlaced. What's that? Every monitor you've had in the last 10 years is progressive? I can't imagine why that would be...

The only good thing about 60i content is that you can restore movies shot in 24p back to 24p through 3:2 pulldown, which would have been a lot harder with 30p but I'd take 1080p30 over 1080i60 on a progressive (NB: Not interlaced!!!) screen any day. Now, 1080i60 vs 720p60 is tougher, because you lose detail in low-motion screens, but gain smoothness in high-motion screens. 1080p60 would be king of the hill, no doubt about that.

Re:What does this mean for monitors?

[Blakey Rat]

Just FYI, 1280x1024 is a bad choice because, while it's supported by Microsoft, a lot of game developers don't correctly adapt to the strange 1.25:1 aspect ratio and so games will have a tendency to either have black bars or be squished strangely. The dashboard, and all Microsoft-developed games will work correctly, as they test for that, but anything else is kind of a gamble.

Re:Ha!

[lowe0]

Not over component. The last update added upconversion for VGA only.

Re:I have 1080p already but..

[conigs]

I see this argument all the time. I have to disagree with you. Let's look at the actual resolution for each signal.

720p: 1280x720

1080i: 1920x540 (for all practical purposes)

1080p: 1920x1080

Now, let's figure this out in terms of that oh-so-popular megapixel:

720p: .9MP (921,600)

1080i: 1MP (1,036,800)

1080p: 2MP (2,073,600)

So while a 1080i signal may not contain as much vertical resolution, the horizontal resolution is still much greater, producing 115,200 more pixels than 720p.

Each signal has it's own merits, just don't go touting 720p as having a greater resolution than 1080i.

Re:more importantly...

[kingsean]

FTA

You will finally be able to experience all 60 frames per second of visuals that your 1080p HDTV can provide. Unfortunately there has been no HDMI cable yet announced so this is only over component and VGA. Even better, users can expect 1080p upscaling immediately on current games and DVDs while native 1080p on compatible HD DVD titles.

Emphasis mine of course... I see a few problems with what's going on here.

1. I have never seen a television that is able to reproduce 1080p over component cables. Some units could probably be able to push a 1080p picture through component, but most limit that feature to a dvi-d interface. (I could very well be wrong, though, please correct me)
2. This is up-conversion. Therefore the games currently are sent natively through 720p (interchangeable with 1080i, no?) and upconverted to 1080p via the xbox. This picture is then sent to the television to handle. If the television can't handle it, I'm assuming it will end up 1080i.
3. In response to the article... If my first point is correct, that no television can take a component 1080p signal and display it, then there can be no native "1080p games" developed.

But no HDMI?

[AeroMed45N]

According to High-Def Digest, the photos of the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 does not have an HDMI output. 1080p over component only is problematic - particularly if the movie studios turn on content protection. So, having 1080p output without the digital path to the display is not such bit thunder, IMHO.... See http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Microsoft/X box_360/High-Def_DVD_Gaming/No_HDMI_for_Xbox_360_H D_DVD_Add-On/248 [highdefdigest.com]

Re:Dude, what about HD DVD

[gEvil (beta)]

I'm well aware that media that can take advantage of 1080p is slowly coming out. However, my comment was written in response to pjr.cc's claim that he is using a 1080p plasma (very few exist) to receive 1080p signals in Australia (where there are no 1080p signals). Claiming that you are actively using something to receive signals that don't exist is very different from claiming that you intend to use something down the road.

Re:I have 1080p already but..

[SeattleGameboy]

That is because it is inherently more difficult to de-interlace than to upconvert.

You have to remember that when you have an interlaced signal, the two interlaced frames are not from the same time frame. With CRT's it is not a big deal as your eyes and brain fill in the difference nicely (between scans). But when you have to convert it to a digital display, it becomes a very difficult problem.

Once you have 1080P, it will look superior to 720P since you are skipping at least one additional upconverting step.