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Backlash Against British Encryption Law 409

gardenermike writes "The BBC is reporting on some backlash against the British Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) that came into force in 2000, which makes it a criminal act to refuse to decrypt files on a computer. Not surprisingly, the bugaboos of child pornography and terrorism, while unquestionably heinous, are being used to justify a law which does little to protect against either. Lord Phillips of Sudbury is quoted 'You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell.'"
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Backlash Against British Encryption Law

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  • Stand (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @01:54PM (#15911568)
    This is one of the reasons that Stand [stand.org.uk] formed, way back when. I remember writing to my Member of Parliament, trying to argue against the Bill's usefulness. It was forwarded to Charles Clarke, who replied in boilerplate about the risks of terrorism, fraud, child porn, and all the things that are as irrelevant today as they were then.

    If they could get the provisions approved in 2000, then it'll be even easier for them in the "post September 11th world".
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:00PM (#15911619)
    Sine New Labour came to power back in 1997, we have had more laws passed relating to Criminality thane ever before.
    It is widely acknoweledged that many of these laws are badly thought out and despite the attempts of the House of Lords to revise them, they are actually inneffectual and sometimes impossible to enforce by both the Police and the Courts.
    This is one of those laws.
    There was huge amounts of SPIN associated with its passage through parliament. Sort of like "This law will save the world"

    Now, just a few years later (in legal terms this is still a new law) we get this ack that it is not all it was cracked up to be.

    No, what professions did our beloved leaded follow before he became a politician?

    He was a barrister. So is his wfie.
    So, I ask you, why can't a TWO lawyer family make sure that they get more appropriate laws passed?
    The reason is that bad laws make for lots of money coming the way of lawyers who make the bad laws in the first place.
    A self perpetuating circle.

    I'm posting this annon as I don't want a knock on the door at 04:00 tomorrow from our esteemed police force.
  • Re:Lord Phillips (Score:3, Informative)

    by Tx ( 96709 ) on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:06PM (#15911675) Journal
    Because when I want somebody's ideas on what comprises a democracy, I ask somebody with a peerage.

    That's fair comment, but it's worth pointing out the first elected parliament was instigated by Simon de Montfort, 6th Earl of Leicester, in England in 1265. So arguably modern parliamentary democracy was invented by someone with a peerage ;).
  • Re:Lord Phillips (Score:5, Informative)

    by Triskele ( 711795 ) on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:09PM (#15911704)
    Because when I want somebody's ideas on what comprises a democracy, I ask somebody with a peerage.
    He's a Life Peer not an inherited aristocrat (we've mostly got rid of those, thank you). You can find the details of what lead to his nomination here [libdems.org.uk].

    The closest parallel I can think of would be one of your Chief Justices... They provide some oversight on Parliament's legislation, tend to be less bound by party politics and rarely bothered by winning votes.

    Personally, given the parlous state of your nation, I'd think twice about throwing jibes around about democracy.

  • Simple enough (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anon-Admin ( 443764 ) on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:09PM (#15911708) Journal
    Some one needs to mod GPG to include Steganography [wikipedia.org]

    One password decrypts to unimportant data, the other provides your true payload.

    Then when they demand your password, you give them the first one. You have met the law and have plausible deniability.
  • Deviant alternative (Score:2, Informative)

    by works ( 995530 ) on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:12PM (#15911738)
    In case you do want to crypt your files and when forced by an official of this oppressive regime to decrypt them, you make sure that you use TrueCrypt http://www.truecrypt.org/ [truecrypt.org] From the page: Provides two levels of plausible deniability, in case an adversary forces you to reveal the password: 1) Hidden volume. 2) No TrueCrypt volume can be identified (volumes cannot be distinguished from random data). So with one password you can open a volume that 'appears' to be what you needed to encrypt, but still hides the files that you intended to crypt in the first place. Good free software, perfect for us working with laptops.
  • Re:Heinous? (Score:5, Informative)

    by plague3106 ( 71849 ) on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:19PM (#15911806)
    The 1st amendment only applies to free expression and art that middle class Christians approve of!

    Um, what? This thread is about a UK law, and thus has nothing to do with the American First amendment.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:24PM (#15911847)
    That was in 2002. The PROTECT Act which among others makes obscene drawings of fictional children illegal was passed in 2003.
  • Re:Lord Phillips (Score:3, Informative)

    by amliebsch ( 724858 ) on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:47PM (#15912051) Journal

    right along with electors being chosen by popular vote (it ought to be done by the state legislatures).

    Technically, it is being done by the state legislatures. It's just that all the legislatures have decided to base their decision on a popular vote. There's no federal or constitutional requirement that they hold a vote, though.

  • by jd ( 1658 ) <imipak@yahoGINSBERGo.com minus poet> on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:52PM (#15912097) Homepage Journal
    I would say that the British - as a whole - are more tolerent of moderate intrusion as the price paid for maintaining a highly inclusive society, but are vastly more hostile to excesses. Some of the protests in the past in England would not - and could not - have occurred in almost any other country.


    This works for and against the British. Politicians, knowing that they will receive leniency, are more inclined to abuse power. So there's a vast amount of low-grade abuse. But actual high-grade in-your-face abuse is less common than, say, in America. It happens, but it's not quite as frequent and politicians are less likely to escape the consequences.


    That the Lords are beginning to wake up to what is happening is interesting and significant. The Lords, for those not familiar with the British system, have no right to vote for politicians and cannot create bills. However, they CAN veto bills and a select group of Lords (the Law Lords) CAN overturn laws during trials. (Lords are neither elected nor are they capable of electing. As a result, they tend to be politically independent - there isn't much anyone can do to manipulate, control or blackmail them. There's no lever. They do stupid things, sometimes, but they're a superb stabilizing and rationalizing force.)


    Because the Lords have a lot of power that politicians cannot control, political parties are forever trying to change the law to control the second house, and/or try to pollute the house by nominating wealthy supporters for lordships. It has undermined the benefits of having an independent group, but not yet completely.


    Lords also tend to have a lot of influence in whatever region they are the Lord of - they often, but not always, have money, status and an excellent understanding of theatrics and the media. This doesn't mean they'll always get listened to, but it DOES mean they'll get listened to more than the average person and it DOES mean they tend to be more aware of public sentiment than most MPs.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @02:58PM (#15912147)
    I always make my truecrypt volumes 650 or 700MB. I make them that size so that can burn them to CD-R's later. If they only have 50MB used, thats because I just haven't filled them yet (not because they have a hidden volume - really, I promise)
  • It's worse.

    There is no real Terrorism to speak of, in practical terms. Statistically you have a better chance of being struck by lightning multiple times - or be killed in a random crash with an 18 wheel Deisel, than perishing in a 'terror attack'.

    With these real facts, why hasn't the American president lanched a pre-emptive war against Meteorology or Interstate Trucking? Oh yeah these are real hazards, not EMMANUEL GOLDSTEIN.

    Paedophiles are real, and probably live withinn 2 miles of your house, if you are an American suburbanite.

    http://www.mapsexoffenders.com/ [mapsexoffenders.com]
    http://www.nationalalertregistry.com/ [nationalal...gistry.com]

    They don't stop at kiddie pictures.
  • by gid13 ( 620803 ) on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @03:25PM (#15912428)
    As someone else pointed out, nobody really said it is. I'm personally tempted to say that the making of it is worse, as I suspect forcing or coercing children to sex causes more suffering than terrorism does. I'm also tempted to say that the possession of it doesn't concern me much, because I don't think that possessing it will really change the amount of suffering involved.

    Aside from that, though, I worry about the word "unquestionably". Anyone who thinks terrorism is unquestionably heinous should really read 1984, or, if you prefer movies, try V For Vendetta.
  • by jimicus ( 737525 ) on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @03:50PM (#15912706)
    IIRC the punishment is 3 years for not decrypting the data, which can rise to 5 if (seriously!) you inform anyone about the fact that you're being investigated under the act.

    Whereas Gary Glitter was apparently sentenced to four months [wikipedia.org] for possession of child porn.

    That being said, it's probably rather easier to resume a normal life if your CV reads "3 years in prison for not complying with an RIPA demand" rather than "4 months in prison for possessing indecent pictures of small children".
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @04:06PM (#15912972)
    Newsflash: You do not need to be sexually aroused to get an erection. Look at teenage boys: they spring boners at the sign of pretty much anything, even things that are not remotely sexual. The male does not have to be "willing to get it up" in order for erection to occur.
    You need to stop buying into the bullshit.
  • Amendment V (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15, 2006 @06:53PM (#15914916)
    A court can't, or rather shouldnt be able to, order someone to provide evidence against themselves.
    A court can provide authority to search certain places for something, that's about it.

    Afaik, a person is not under obligation to provide information they possess through which they may end up incriminating themselves (ie, they have the right to remain silent). For example, would you think it's ok if a court orders someone to tell the location of stolen items and then fine/convict that person if he doesn't say where they are without even convicting the person of stealing the items in the first place. Otoh, if they were able to prove that the items were stolen, yes then obviously they can ask for the items or equivalent restititution.

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