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Hardware Firms Go Against Crowd on Net Neutrality 292

An anonymous reader writes "Some of the largest hardware firms in the world, like Cisco and 3M, have sent a letter to U.S. policymakers asking them not to be too hasty on mandated net neutrality laws." From the News.com article: "'It is premature to attempt to enact some sort of network neutrality principles into law now,' says the letter, which was signed by 34 companies and sent to House Majority Leader Dennis Hastert and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. 'Legislating in the absence of real understanding of the issue risks both solving the wrong problem and hobbling the rapidly developing new technologies and business models of the Internet with rigid, potentially stultifying rules.'"
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Hardware Firms Go Against Crowd on Net Neutrality

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  • Regulate Who? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nbannerman ( 974715 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @09:01AM (#15356698)
    If the US wishes to regulate content within the US, then so be it. Legally, they can decide what goes on inside their borders. But the internet is a global network; regulation across national borders has never really worked. Off-shore banking, anybody? Are we going to see off-shore datacenters (aka Sealand) but on a grand scale?
  • by Enderandrew ( 866215 ) <enderandrew&gmail,com> on Thursday May 18, 2006 @09:11AM (#15356755) Homepage Journal
    No doubt the hardware companies have a vested interest in this and speak from a biased perspective. However, while most /. readers are well informed on such issues, most members of Congress aren't.

    There are the same folks who seem to believe a .xxx domain will increase porn on the internet and make it easier for kids to view porn. They can't grasp the simple concept that currently there is plenty of porn that is easy to access, and a .xxx domain will actually help filter that content away from kids.

    Do we expect these guys to understand and make a good decision regarding the future of the internet? With that it mind, I echo this message. Don't rush into a decision. Perhaps if they take their time one of two favorable outcomes will emerge.

    1 - Logic and reason will win out and good legislation will emerge.
    2 - Congress will release they have no fucking clue and just leave it all alone.

    I'm hoping for the latter over the former.
  • by HughsOnFirst ( 174255 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @09:11AM (#15356756)
    When I worked at Cisco, the big plan in many of the product groups was to move the intelligence away from the edge of the network as a way to keep Cisco routers from being commoditized.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @09:33AM (#15356859)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by HRogge ( 973545 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @09:36AM (#15356874)
    Network neutrality and Qos don't contradict each other... as long as the customer and not the content provider is paying the bill.

    Each ISP can tell his customers "for extra 10$ you get priorized network access"... the market will show him if someone is willing to pay. But when they try to charge the content providers (Google, ect.) it's nothing else than an extortion.

  • Re:Regulate Who? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by truthsearch ( 249536 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @09:46AM (#15356934) Homepage Journal
    It won't be regulated by the US (directly) on a global scale. As soon as the net traffic enters US-owned wires it'll be regulated. But I guarantee as soon as regulation is passed the EU will be pressured by the US to do the same.
  • Re:Regulate Who? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by LordOfTheNoobs ( 949080 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @09:53AM (#15356993) Homepage
    How?
    ISP:: We see you've been sending packets across our infrastructure to our client nodes.
    .UK:: Yeah, we've got about five hundred customers on your network.
    ISP:: Here's a bill for $$$$^$$
    .UK:: Fuck off yank.
    ISP:: We see.
    * ISP shuts off all traffic from clients to .UK on grounds of failure to pay bill, shows clients website stating that .UK is at fault for not paying
    .UK:: You arse holes.
    ISP:: And?
    * .UK $$$$ -> ISP

    Same to any and all foreign and domestic content providers.

    /extortion
  • by DragonWriter ( 970822 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @10:05AM (#15357072)
    Net Neutrality in my mind is comparable to forcing the Bells to allow other people to sell telephones that hooked into their network.


    Its not merely comparable, but with the increasing popularity of VoIP, it is the exact same thing.

    Which is, of course, why the telcos are so eager to find any excuse to get rid of it. They've always wanted to be free to leverage their monopoly on the wires to control everything that attached to them, and every business that relied on them, which is why they were subjected to common carrier laws and broken up to prevent in the first place.

    Now they're re-merging and looking for ways to render common carrier controls irrelevant; by comparison to what is being sought here, Microsoft's market distorting power was small change. The kind of dominance the colluding telcos would exercise would be more analogous to the old Standard Oil monopoly.
  • easy solution (Score:2, Interesting)

    by buddyglass ( 925859 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @10:10AM (#15357109)

    At least, theoretically speaking. Charge the end-user on a per-bandwidth-consumed basis. Voila. People who want to stream movies or torrent huge files will pay a premium. The rest of us who just web browse, check email, play networked games, and occasionally view a video clip...we pay the same (or less) than we do now. This way nobody's bandwidth is artificially limited. The only limit is how much you want to buy.

    ISPs could give people an initial "bucket" of bytes in exchange for a base monthly charge. No charge until that bucket is exhausted, after which they start paying. Basically, have it work like cell phone plans. Would this be annoying? Sure, a little. Would it be more fair? Probably.

  • Of course! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Moflamby-2042 ( 919990 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @10:16AM (#15357143)
    Capitalism backfires when it treats information as a product. It works when there are producers and consumers, but for information production there are only producers and viewers. It's an incomplete analogy that causes no end of trouble as time and law 'progress' seeking how to fairly handle this. In this case it takes the form of "can we penalize transfer of TYPES of data or by source/destination". Consider this akin to copyright or patent systems as they stand today in the same category as a bastardized form of their intents. Mostly modifying how you can 'use' information in terms of EULA and DMCA enforced copy protection, etc. If corporations own infrastructure and collaborate then how can competition get rid of this problem?

    1) when does the revolution begin?
    2) what form should it take?

    Should it be:
    1. Ignore it and let technology progression defeat attempts at such control? Suppose we make a new Internet, say an Internet 2 (!) encrypt the hell out of everything and ban all traffic that is directly decipherable? How long before that is made illegal?
    2. Legal pushes? I don't think there's enough of us to do this, but it's possible. Though it seems as geeks / nerds our efforts are much more beneficial to the world in doing what we do best, not having to waste our time lobbying against those people that attack information freedom and twisting it to try to make it sound like they're doing the opposite and everyone else is criminals.


    The thing that makes people squeamish is that information shouldn't obey capitalistic control since it doesn't meet the analogy correctly. There is something far better that frees information and ensures those that produce it are payed appropriately. Here the only long term successful choice seems to be something like a tax system where people choose where the money goes but should have access to it all. That is, they aren't LEGALLY prevented from accessing it, sharing it, telling someone else about it, singing it, dancing it, whatever. Then tack on any sane laws addressing privacy concerns (selling med records) or claiming work is your own when it isn't, if possible.
  • by electroniceric ( 468976 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @11:29AM (#15357673)
    Very interesting and knowledgeable comment. Perhaps you can answer a question I've always had:

    To my mind, the only reason the telcos have any ability to even fight this fight is their government-sanctioned monopoly on the last mile. Basically as long as most consumers and small businesses have to start their traffic on telco copper, the telcos can restrict their access to all the other "backbone" providers. If that monopoly were broken, then a consumer could in choose whether they wanted a net-neutral ISP or a paid-content ISP. The market can dictate who ends up connected to what kind of "backbone"/peering arrangement. Many consumers might well opt for the paid-content ISP, since it would basically be a TV+phone+internet bundle, while businesses and geeks and those visiting Wikipedia would go for net-neutral service. And that's not even mentioning the myriad other benefits breaking that monopoly would have: true competition between all ISPs, lowered cost of local service, and no stupid games like forbidding bandwidth-sharing. The beginning and the end of this problem is the government-granted monopoly the telcos have on last-mile connectivity.

    So I say cut the following deal: back off on enforcing network neutrality, but use regulation to open the last mile to all comers, including wireless mesh, broadand over electrical, etc. With that resolve, the market can resolve how bandwidth should be apportioned.

    Does this make any sense?
  • by 3.5 stripes ( 578410 ) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @11:32AM (#15357709)
    Every gigabyte they send has a cost, they may have a large connection (or three) but they also pay for the traffic going over that link.

    You're also forgetting that what the telecoms are proposing here isn't just looking at how much, but also where it's going. so now, they'll pay for an OC-12, by the gig AND a fee to make sure their customers get a good connection.

    It's the third part they're objecting to. They already pay large amounts of cash for everything going in and out of their datacenter, why should they pay _more_ for guaranteed priority?
  • by dubl-u ( 51156 ) * <2523987012&pota,to> on Thursday May 18, 2006 @03:34PM (#15360080)
    The problem is, as always, government regulation at every level. [...] The best way to create a competitive market is genuine deregulation p [...]

    Sorry, but I can't see this as other than starry-eyed idealism. I agree that some government regulation is a problem here. In particular, the government-granted monopolies to telcos and cable companies have given them a massive financial advantage that will persist even in the face of deregulation.

    But saying that regulation is always the problem ignores much of the history of the modern marketplace. Trademark law, anti-trust law, protection against fraud, mandatory deposit insurance, laws against ponzi schemes, and many other regulations create a carefully balanced environment where you maximize the market's ability to create value and mediate exchange of goods and services.

    I worked for several years in the belly of the marketplace beast, spending time on the floors of several major exchanges. I promise you that careful rule-making (and the matching fear of wrath from on high) was a vital component in what at first glance appears to be capitalism at its most unfettered.

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