UK Government Passes ID Card Bill 306
cowbutt writes "The two houses of the UK government, the elected House of Commons and the House of Lords have agreed a compromise on Labour's ID cards bill, after Conservative peers accepted a Labour amendment. Under the new amendment, anyone renewing a designated document (e.g. passport) will be able to opt-out of getting a card until 2010, but will still have their details put on the National ID Register immediately."
A work-around (Score:5, Interesting)
The T-shirt I want to wear through security ... (Score:4, Interesting)
FRONT TEXT: I'm carrying a picture of myself.
BACK TEXT: Do you feel safer yet?
"Proper" ID (that is, rigorously checked, hard to fake, and accurate), for all of the good civil liberty arguments against it, might actually prevent certain types of crime. Them's the breaks.
Would it deter people who don't mind dying in order to obtain a religo-political goal? Well, it didn't deter the September 11 hijackers, at least not all of them.
The only way to travel free of possible terrorism is if everyone agrees to be schlepped around nude, drugged, and packed in Jello. Including the terrorists.
timothy
Re:How does that help? (Score:2, Interesting)
Uh oh (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, we'll still have Bush, but if we can a Democrat majority in Congress, especially a democrat majority with a fucking spine, Bush and them will spend the next two years fighting until we can hopefully replace all of them in '08 and start the long path of recovery...
You know it's bad when pleas like this are coming from a Republican.
Right that's it! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Uh oh (Score:4, Interesting)
You are joking, right? I am no Republican supporter, but you realize that Clinton and the Democrats proposed a National ID Card in the 1990s, and it was the Republicans who opposed it? And the National ID in the UK was pushed by the Labor Party, who would be far-left by U.S. standards.
Seriously, how twisted by your own propoganda do you have to be to think that Democrats are not rabid supporters of the police state? The Democrats and the Left love the idea of a police state just as much as the right.
Perhaps if the Libertarians, or the Greens, or someone else got into congress, we could begin reversing the trend. But don't try to pretend for a second that your party doesn't 100% support Totalitarianism, without reservations.
Some Context for the Uninitiated (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/idcards/0,,1373591,00.h
Re:Heard it before? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not quite. But historically they have been the first step towards it. [preventgenocide.org]
from the link above:
The most elaborate identification system created was that of Nazi Germany, though it was not applied uniformly in all territories occupied by Germany. Raul Hilberg describes that system and its impact upon Jews in especially great detail in his 1985 edition of The Destruction of the European Jews, summarizing as follows:
"The whole identification system, with its personal documents, specially assigned names, and conspicuous tagging in public, was a powerful weapon in the hands of the police. First, the system was an auxiliary device that facilitated the enforcement of residence and movement restrictions. Second, it was an independent control measure in that it enabled the police to pick up any Jew, anywhere, anytime. Third, and perhaps most important, identification had a paralyzing effect on its victims. The system induced the Jews to be even more docile, more responsive to command than before. The wearer of the star was exposed; he thought that all eyes were fixed upon him. It was as though the whole population had become a police force, watching him and guarding his actions. No Jew, under those conditions, could resist, escape, or hide without first ridding himself of the conspicuous tag, the revealing middle name, the telltale ration card, passport, and identification papers. Yet the riddance of these burdens was dangerous, for the victim could be recognized and denounced. Few Jews took the chance. The vast majority wore the star and, wearing it, were lost."
How screwed is the US vs UK? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Vaguely true in the UK. More accurately true in the US.
You know, I doubt many people outside the US remember that Bush stole TWO elections.
2. Definitely true in the US, the UK played along...
Much the same I think. One can understand paranoia better if 9/11 happens in your country. The UK has been fighting terrorists forever. Did you know Blair is refusing independent scrutiny of what happened on 7/7?
3. HAHAHAHA!
I can't believe they're both still there. Bush at least was a bit more honest than Blair. How's the plan to impeach Bush going?
4. Yes, true for the UK. Since when has Bush needed a mandate from the people for anything?
Now we're getting to why the US is better off than the UK: your constitution. We have lost pretty much every right that we had in the last 2 years.
5. At least the UK has some controls!!
No, it really doesn't. Even though we know Blair lied over the invasion, we can't impeach him. He is only accountable in the sense that Brown might one day grow a pair and challenge him.
6. and how many people are there in the US who DONT have a driving license?
True. Hope you guys don't get anything like we're getting. And at least you have your guns... ;)
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:3, Interesting)
This isn't such a big deal. In my country, it's mandatory to have an ID card, at least since I can remember. I live in a democratic country, that's part of the EU.
The ID card paranoia is an Anglo-Saxon thing. I guess it goes against your traditional concept of personal freedom. In my personal opinion, ID card is quite a useful thing. You'll end up to get used to it, eventually.