Microsoft Releases Atlas

Jason Lind writes "Much earlier than anticipated, Microsoft announced the release of Atlas this afternoon at MIX 06. For those who don't know, Atlas is Microsoft's AJAX API for ASP.NET 2, which they claim will greatly reduce the effort in developing AJAX style applications on their platform."

Not to muddy the waters with facts...

[YU Nicks NE Way]

But this is the March CTP for Atlas, not the final release.

Re:Microsoft learning its lesson?

[Anonymous Coward]

ASP.NET 2.0 has a lot more options, including XHTML.

Re:Key words are...

[nixkuroi]

After having watched the guy put together an Ajax application in 10 minutes (typing in all the code right in front of all 1700 of the people in the room) and then watching him open the exact page he created in Safari on a mac, I can pretty well assure you that it DOES work the way MS claims. Now that isn't to say that they haven't built any non-compliant components into it, but what I saw today will handle MOST of the basics of what you'd want on a data driven site without difficulty.

How about we stop trolling and actually check it out before tearing it down.

Re:Ajax is a flash in the pan

[Skreems]

Well, there's always Javascript Object Notation Language...

Re:Ajax is a flash in the pan

[FecesFlingingRhesus]

While I agree that JavaScript is not the ideal candidate for developing any system, much less a web app it is what we are limited to. Java Applets et. al. are DOA, unsupported or don't fit within the model of web application development. For better or worse those are the breaks.

I differ with you on the presumption that AJAX is irrelevant, as recently as a few months ago I would have concurred with this notion and would have agreed that it was a new spin on some simple technologies. That was until I found the Echo2 framework [nextapp.com], it is an Open Source Java framework built on top of the servlet API it is the first comprehensive Ajax framework that I have found and the component model is both flexible and intuitive. It is the first framework where I have not felt the restrictions of the web metaphor creeping into design decisions. It has changed my idea of what Ajax web apps are capable of in terms of usability, speed, code reuse and overall system design.

Re:Ajax is a flash in the pan

[modmans2ndcoming]

hmm... you mena like Rico or mochi kit?

Well, Here We Go

[MikeyTheK]

Well, the AJAX wars have started, and M$ maybe just got off the first shot. We'll see. With http://www.morfik.com/ [morfik.com]'s public beta just around the corner the RAD IDE AJAX tools are finally coming on scene. We'll see what people can do with these tools, and whether AJAX is REALLY as overrated as some are claiming. Personally I'll bet that once people can get their hands on tools that let them build web apps as easily as they can desktop apps (and unplug them, i.e. run them locally or over the 'net, as you can with Morfik) you'll see a huge increase in web applications.

The number of AJAX tools that are on their way is staggering. http://www.tersus.com/ [tersus.com] is one designed for the absolute noob, and http://www.backbase.com/ [backbase.com] is also a potential option.

Re:easier?

[Sqwubbsy]

I'm pretty sure the Express Edition just lacks a lot of the server integration/front end deployment capabilities. Which, of course, is a lot.

Standards Compliant

[Landak]

Standards Compliant Hmn? [w3.org]

Try the CSS one for a real laugh :).

Did you guys even read TFA???

[moochfish]

I'm not really a fan of MS, but I recognize they have a lot going for them. I'm a PHP developer so please don't assume I'm defending it because I like ASP. Really, I don't.

I think a bunch of people commenting read the press release and made their judgements without actually investigating how incredible the technology is. There was even the flamebait who posted something about cross browser compatibility. Well, watch the freaking demo video before you go trolling. You can find their first of many such demos here:

mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/uifx/asp_net_atlas.wmv [wmmicrosof...etatlaswmv]

Maybe I find it amazing because I'm not that used to ASP development, but I'm thoroughly impressed how far MS has come in making developing for their platform easy. The demo I pasted above shows him making a pretty standard data grid. That part is cool, at best, to anybody familiar with ASP, and flat out amazing to anybody who's never seen ASP sites being developed. About 2/3 into the video he busts out the new Atlas code (so fast forward to there). It was maybe 3 additional ASP tags to implement full asynchronous functionality plus one more to setup a "updating..." dialog. Suddenly, a page that required refreshes on any action could add, edit, and *sort* paginated data without any refreshes.

And then he fires up the same code in Firefox and goes to show that it works exactly the same in both browsers. 3 ASP tags.

I'm sorry, but how can you blindly bash that? Sure there's equivalent technology in the works out there (such as rails), but it doesn't make this any less amazing. If there was a development platform as complete as MS's offering but based on Python/PHP, people would be pissing their pants. To ASP developers, this will make creating AJAX functionality unbelievably easy.

MS just scored major Hype 2.0 points today. But the hype isn't all unjustified. Again, go learn about this before you bash it. [asp.net]

Re:Well, Here We Go

[MikeyTheK]

Frameworks aren't the same thing as IDE/RAD tools. http://www.axaxian.com/ [axaxian.com] discusses lots of frameworks every day. Ruby on Rails does AJAX. However, this isn't the same thing as having a complete integrated tool that does it all for you. Any geek can spank out httpRequests, but this next generation of tool should make rich web apps a lot eaiser to build, which means that a lot more creative people will be building them.

Re:Ajax is a flash in the pan

[MobyDisk]

That's a great analogy, but there is one crucial difference between X11 and Javascript: X11 was designed in an academic environment, while JavaScript + AJAX evolved in a de-facto way alongside HTML.

You could write Widgets to run on AJAX just like you could on X11, but it will be really tough since AJAX is not a standard, and it wasn't intended for that purpose. It's just not a solid basis. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it won't be pretty. I'm not sure that such a widget library will ever be truly reliable given the willingness we've seen of browser manufacturers *coughMicrosoftcough* to blatently disregard standards.

Re:Ajax is a flash in the pan

[FecesFlingingRhesus]

see my other post http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=180 799&cid=14959879 [slashdot.org] it already exits it is called Echo2 [nextapp.com] it is a open source Java web framework. AJAX is integrated seamlessly into the component model. It is the most comprehensive toolkit I have found. I have been researching them for my new project for several months now and Echo2 is leaps and bounds ahead of the other competing projects.

Re:Where's the beef?

[AKAImBatman]

More likely, the summary is screwed up. It takes you here [atlas.asp.net] when you need to go here [asp.net]. I discussed this a bit more in my response to someone else [slashdot.org].

This is one of those times that I am actually happy to be wrong. With all the nonsense surrounding AJAX as it is, all we needed was Microsoft throwing fuel on the fire.

Re:Ajax is a flash in the pan

[Run4yourlives]

um... in case you haven't noticed, google is updating those images on the fly... which is a textbook definition of how to use ajax...

ATLAS Homepage

[HeyBob!]

Here's the site:
http://atlas.asp.net/default.aspx?tabid=47 [asp.net]

Atlas License

[Anonymous Coward]

MICROSOFT PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS
MICROSOFT ASP.NET CODE-NAME "ATLAS" MARCH GO LIVE CTP
These license terms are an agreement between Microsoft Corporation (or based on where you live, one of its affiliates) and you. Please read them. They apply to the pre-release software named above, which includes the media on which you received it, if any. The terms also apply to any Microsoft
updates,
supplements,
Internet-based services, and
support services
for this software, unless other terms accompany those items. If so, those terms apply.
BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THEM, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE.
If you comply with these license terms, you have the rights below.
1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. You may install and use any number of copies of the software:
to design, develop and test your programs for use with the software; and
in a hosted environment to allow your customers to use, via a web interface, your programs that need the software to run.
2. TERM. The term of this agreement is until August 1, 2006, or commercial release of the software, whichever is first.
3. PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE. This software is a pre-release version. It may not work correctly or the way a final version of the software will. We may change it for the final, commercial version. We also may not release a commercial version. You are fully responsible for any and all damages that may result due to any failure of the software; and you will notify your users that your web programs rely on pre-release, unsupported software that may not operate correctly.
4. INDEMNIFICATION. You agree to indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any claims, allegations, lawsuits, losses and costs (including attorney fees), that arise or result from the use, deployment or distribution of your programs that use the software.
5. FEEDBACK. If you give feedback about the software to Microsoft, you give to Microsoft, without charge, the right to use, share and commercialize your feedback in any way and for any purpose. You also give to third parties, without charge, any patent rights needed for their products, technologies and services to use or interface with any specific parts of a Microsoft software or service that includes the feedback. You will not give feedback that is subject to a license that requires Microsoft to license its software or documentation to third parties because we include your feedback in them. These rights survive this agreement.
6. Scope of License. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. You may not
disclose the results of any benchmark tests of the software to any third party without Microsoft's prior written approval;
work around any technical limitations in the software;
reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;
make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;
publish the software for others to copy;
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distribute the software;
rent, lease or lend the software; or

Java Competitor

[coldtone]

If your using Java and want a good Ajax framework. Check out Icefaces [icesoft.com]

It's currently in alpha release.

Re:Did you guys even read TFA??? - ASTROTURFER

[bit01]

... incredible ... amazing ... thoroughly impressed ... cool ... flat out amazing ... amazing ... unbelievably ... major ...

Lying astroturfer [wikipedia.org], fraudulently misrepresenting company propaganda as objective third party opinion.

• First paragraph gives fake credentials to suck wary reader in. Check.
• Rest of article in hype overdrive. Check.
• Claims alternative points of view are troll/flamebait/bash. Check.
• Article is a disorganised mishmash of "positive" points. Check.
• Claims that making the equivalent of a procedure call to existing code is amazing. Check.
• Claims functionality that's been available for years under other names is somehow new. Check.
• Take home point links to further marketing drivel. Check.

It appears to have been mod'ed up by sock puppets [wikipedia.org] too.

Don't think it's an astroturfer? Learn more about undercover marketing [wikipedia.org], M$' astroturfing history [qwest.net], non-M$ astroturfing [techweb.com], net astroturfing [metroactive.com] and non-net astroturfing [cbsnews.com].

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The majority of modern marketing is nothing more than an arms race to get mind share. Everybody loses except the parasitic marketing "industry".