Ebay and Microsoft Fight Software Piracy

illeism writes "E-commerce News is reporting that Microsoft is going after Ebay sellers offering pirated copies of Microsoft software. From the article 'The suits do not name eBay as a defendant and Microsoft indicated that it has received extensive cooperation from the auction giant in the past as it tried to ferret out piracy. In fact, Microsoft said it asked eBay to remove some 50,000 suspicious auctions during 2005 alone ... The suits are mainly against individuals and cover alleged counterfeit sales of several Microsoft programs, including Windows and Office XP and older versions, such as Office 2000.'" More interestingly, the article flatly states that MS has no hope of ending piracy. The suits are apparently meant to 'protect consumers'.

More M$ Hooey

[TripMaster Monkey]

This article is so slanted, it's positively perpendicular.

From TFA:

Piracy is in fact becoming more dangerous for end users, with hacked or illegal versions often containing malicious code that can be used to infect PCs with viruses or to install Trojan horses that can be used to steal private data, Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio said.

Yes, of course....this incentive is to protect the consumer...not the multi-billion dollar software giant the Yankee Group is actually beholden to. 'Won't somebody think of the children', indeed. It's clear that if you have reservations about this in any way, you are un-american and hate our children. Why do you hate our children? Why do you hate America?

Here's another gem from TFA:

Many of the suits were sparked by the company's Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) program, a program launched last year to let buyers of software determine whether it is properly licensed. Buyers who learned their programs were not genuine then helped Microsoft by providing information on the sellers.

Replace 'let' with 'force', and we might have a statement approaching truth. Checking if your Windows install was legal used to be entirely voluntary. WGA is voluntary only in the sense of 'you don't need to participate...and we don't need to give you non-critical updates'. This is analogous to a bank requiring your SS number to open an account, despite the fact that that number was meant soley for government use, and never designed for that sort of application. When asked why a SS number is required, when in fact, this requirement is illegal, bank managers invariably reply, "oh...you have every right to refuse to divulge your SS number...as we have every right to decline your account application". Same situation.

And finally:

By its own admission, Microsoft is unlikely to significantly dent the software piracy industry with lawsuits against individuals.

That depends on your definition of significant. Any headway they make is likely to save them much more than it costs, and that's all Microsoft really cares about in the final analysis....not stamping out piracy...not 'protecting the children', but enhancing the bottom line.

I understand.

[Kranfer]

As a programmer, I understand where Mico$oft is coming from. I wouldn't want someone stealing my code and making a profit off of it by stealing my programs. My Question is, why does it seem that the Tri-State COmputer Show here in NY always seems to have pirated software/OEM software (without the hardware piece) for sale and they never get in trouble? Theres something fishy there... But not to digress, I think that Microsoft is doing a good thing by attempting to stop piracy.

Re:More M$ Hooey

[Alex P Keaton in da]

You can hate Microsoft all you want- But independent of that, I think it is reasonable that a company would go after people selling counterfeit products in an open forum. Look at what Tiffany and Co. is doing to Ebay.

Re:More M$ Hooey

[altoz]

Yes, of course....this incentive is to protect the consumer...

it isn't really even a consumer, it's a potential software pirate.

I'm glad they are doing this..

[Tominva1045]

The upside for smaller software companies is that law governing this kind of activity is more fully developed. Down the road this may help them if they find themselves in the same situation.

Just because technology allows copying of 1's and 0's doesn't mean one should do so.

Here's a question- if MS software is disliked by so many then why do so many pirate it?

At least for now...

[torokun]

"MS has no hope of ending piracy."

At least until they implement end-to-end hardware-supported trusted computing, with laws making it illegal to circumvent or produce analog peripherals.

Automated complaints?

[mwvdlee]

In fact, Microsoft said it asked eBay to remove some 50,000 suspicious auctions during 2005 alone.

So are these human emplyees that are manually reading, inspecting and analysing all the individual auctions, sending the removal requests by hand or is there some automated system replying to anything containing "Windows"? Is it illegal to resell your original copy of Windows?

It makes sense

[DarkNemesis618]

Also realize that counterfeit software more than likely has hacked CD Keys. Microsoft does not want people buying this hacked software only to find out that it doesn't work like it should. Microsoft doesn't want that simply because it could make the customer (who was a fool to buy it on ebay in the first place) think that it's Microsoft's fault. Because then the customer would have wasted money and be pissed off at Microsoft. All debates on how good or bad Microsoft products are aside, from a business standpoint, counterfeit software can hurt any software company, Microsoft or otherwise.

Re:I understand.

[Pofy]

>I wouldn't want someone stealing my code

I can understand you, it is so much work having to type it all in again afterwards and if you don't remember it all correctly, you will not end up with the same program again...

>by stealing my programs

Easier, just recompile and you have your program back again! Unless they stole you code as well, then you are back to retyping it all agian first.

Gotta go with Microsoft on this one...

[Gannoc]

When I was trying to sell a used Mac, I was competing with many, many auctions with descriptions like:

"Selling used iMac G4. Comes installed with, Adobe, Maya, Final Cut Pro, etc. Includes "backup" disk with "backup" copies of this software."

It included EVERY major OSX software product imaginable, and I knew it was in no way legitimate. It had to be $5000+ worth of software, total.

The retail value of the iMac G4 was maybe $1000, but the auctions were going for $1600-$2000. Clearly, people were willing to pay the extra money to get a copy of the software. I would be willing to bet that some of those people thought they were getting used legitimate copies.

This isn't fun+happy software piracy, where the 19 year old college kid wants to play with the $3000 professional video editing tools, this is a criminal selling someone else's software for profit, and I hope the hammer comes down on them...

Re:I'm glad they are doing this..

[Rob T Firefly]

Here's a question- if MS software is disliked by so many then why do so many pirate it?

Maybe for the same reason so many people steal cable TV service even though there's really nothing good on to watch. Most average consumers really don't see an alternative to using Windows. I keep a Windows box up and running so I can dependably run some of my favorite apps and games, the next person may have to keep Windows in order to take their Windows-based work home, and so forth. It's just too ubiquitous for many people.

Re:More M$ Hooey

[rolfwind]

That depends - can you sell your copy of Windows (the CD) on ebay, if you don't want it on your computer? Or does ebay kick it off?

These days, you don't even get a normal CD-rom anymore but a manufacture's CD specific to your model - so it's just Microsoft enforcing it's new computer tax even further.

Re:More M$ Hooey

[Ubergrendle]

Although I agree that Microsoft's primary concern is to protect their marketshare and revenue, i don't think its fair to paint their other concerns in a nefarious light.

If, as an unwitting noobie user, price compare (as I would with any other product) and find a cheaper price online at eBay, I'd probably buy it. Best price wins, right? Except Microsoft holds a monopoly and fixes the prices effectively... so it doesn't really benefit you to shop around. Buying cheap on eBay is a risky venture.

Also, trojans, spyware, etc ARE indeed loaded on these questionable packages. How many ISOs of WinXP are floating around the net? How many would you actually trust?

I have problems with a) microsoft price-fixing, b) anti-trust practices with OEMs, and c) overly restrictive (and probably illegal anyways) end user agreements. But that doesn't mean that stopping piracy for profit is illegitimate.

You don't own Microsoft software, ever

[Alien54]

Heck, I've even got a few legit copies of Office98 still in their shrink wrap around here somewhere (along with copies of Win95 sr2, NT4, and Win2000 ... you'd be amazed at how many shrinkwraped packages people never open and just discard). Maybe I can offer them on eBey? :)

Microsoft would likely classify this as an illegimate sale on the basis of some sort of logic. Remember just because you paid for them doesn't mean you own them, not at all... At least according to Microsoft.

Now if they made this plainly known and explicit on the package from day one, this would be a rather large dis-incentive to potential sales. A variant on the classic Bait and switch.

Re:Gotta go with Microsoft on this one...

[drooling-dog]

I was looking for a laptop on Ebay a while back and it's true that the ones that come with a recent version of Windows cost more than those that come with no OS at all (which is what I was looking for, since I planned to install Linux on it). The problem was that the "clean disk" laptops were few and far between; I finally settled for one running an older version of Windows that bidders weren't willing to pay a premium for. Of course, I would never trust any OS that came installed on a used laptop, so it's going to get wiped regardless.

But who buys them?

[TheCoders]

Ok, Office maybe, but would anybody want to or need to buy Windows on eBay? Maybe I'm out of touch with the masses, but with the abundance of Free software out there, and with Windows coming with every new PC (whether we want it or not), what's the point? Add to that the fact that you can get pretty much any piece of commercial software you want off of BitTorrent, and I can't imagine the market for used software being very big. And don't tell me the buyers don't realize that the burnt CD with the hand-written label is counterfeit. These people know exactly what they're doing, but they don't have the technical savvy to use P2P.

Furthermore, I would be willing to bet Microsoft is spending more money on these lawsuits than they save by stopping the handful of pirates they sue. Basically, this is just a PR game to try and disuade potential pirates with the threat of a lawsuit. The majority of Microsoft's profits come not from individual consumers, but companies, and most companies are not going to be buying their software off of eBay.

Listen, I have no problem with a company trying to protect its source of revenue. They sell software. That's what they do, that's how they make money, so if they want to go after those who violate the software license agreement, good for them. But don't tell us you're doing it for the consumer. You're doing it for yourself and your bottom line. Maybe if Microsoft would be a little more straightforward and just come out and admit their motivations, they wouldn't have as much of a credibility issue as they have now.

Re:Gotta go with the Pirates on this one...

[I'm Don Giovanni]

Yea, everyone wants to spend their hard earned money on $400 of software on a machine that cost $350 to build. Im sure of that.

Slashdotters insist on devaluing software just because it consists of bits rather than atoms.
Generally, software is always more valuable than the hardware that "plays" it. My DVD collection is worth far more than my DVD player. My video game collection is worth far more than my game console. My CD collection is worth more than my CD player. In the 80's my cassette collection was worth more than my cassette player, and my VHS collection was worth more than my VCR. So what's so terrible that computer programs would be worth more than the hardware that runs them?