Domestic Spying Records Ordered Released

CokoBWare wrote to mention an eWeek report on the NSA's domestic spying program. A federal judge has ordered the Department of Justice to release records from the program by March 8th. From the article: "In ordering the Justice Department to expedite the FOIA request processing, Judge Henry Kennedy Jr., of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, said that the department's opinion that it could determine how much time is needed was 'easily rejected ... Under DOJ's view of the expedited processing provisions of FOIA, the government would have carte blanche to determine the time line for processing expedited requests,'"

Born Again = Post Facto

[Doc Ruby]

It's safe to release all of the domestic spying records, now that Bush got his literal "get out of jail free" deal from his Republican Congress [nytimes.com].

After terrorists attack our ports through infiltrating the royal United Arab Emirates corporation that just got handed the ports management contracts [nytimes.com], I expect Congress will pass a law that says that "no one could have anticipated that the ports would be infiltrated through their foreign managers".

Re:Blah. Wait for the appeal(s)...

[_Sharp'r_]

Also, the article summary is wrong in one little detail. The actual article continues the sentence with "or else explain the legal basis under which the records cannot be released."

So basically, the judge set a deadline by with the government must respond to the FOIA request (which could just be a denial saying you can't have the records cause it's classified, likely in this case), he didn't order them to actually release the records.

How about hearing from the guy who ran it?

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing about this is story is everybody has an opinion about what NSA is doing, and what the law is. Then of course there is the reality of what the NSA is really doing and what the law really is. General Hayen used to run the NSA, and was running it when the program was set up. He was the briefer of members of Congress (remember from both parties) on what the program was doing during his time at the NSA. Here is the transcript http:/// [http]http://www.dni.gov/release_letter_012306.h tml/> of Gen. Hayden's appearance Jan. 23, 2006 with the Washington Press Club about this program.

Re:Something to remember

[lucabrasi999]

James Woolsey may have been appointed by Clinton, but he also was a member of The Project for a New American Century [wikipedia.org]. Mr. Woolsey's buddies in that organization included Bill Kristol, the Scaife Family, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. That is not exactly a list of names you would find listed in the Democratic National Committee fundraising book.

I'm not saying that Mr. Woolsey's arguments are invalid. I am saying that you shouldn't (intentionally or unintentionally) insinuate Mr. Woolsey is a liberal Clintonite....

Re:Blah. Wait for the appeal(s)...

[gvibes]

National security data (specifically, "matters that are -- specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy and are in fact properly classified pursuant to such Executive order") is exempted from FOIA requests, so I'm guessing the judge is expecting the DOJ to claim that most of the requested documents are classified.

Re:So then..

[dschuetz]

I thought only the President had the legal authority to unilateraly declassify something without going through channels.

Actually, "channels" means anyone with Original Classification Authority, which includes the President, Vice-President, Director of Central Intelligence, and other intelligence community leaders (I believe DIRNSA, and presumably also the new DNI).

I believe that each individual is responsible for certain kinds of information. For example, the Director of NSA would obviously have some authority over information regarding crypto, so he wouldn't be authorized to declassify information about human spies. Higher-level authorities like DCI, DNI, and obviously VPOTUS and POTUS, would be able to declassify more and more.

So, yes, I would expect that VP Cheney would have the authority to declassify certain information, including, most likely, whatever it is "Scooter" is up the creek over (I honestly have forgotten). But I'm equally certain that such a declassification would have to have a paper trail, and anyone who simply "takes [someone]'s word for it," even the Vice-President's word, that something is now open for release, well, they're not doing *their* job to protect classified information.

I can't remember which Executive Order it is that covers all this...I think 12958 or something along those lines. Okay, I just checked, and OMG, I *did* remember the order. Check it out here: Executive Order 12958 - Classified National Security Information, as Amended [archives.gov]. It's actually fairly interesting reading....

Re:Deceptive headline

[sigalarm]

>Last I checked Germans weren't American citizens and afforded the rights granted by the Constitution Hate to break this to you, but in fact during World War II there was massive scale surveillance of US citizens communicating with people in Europe in order to keep tabs on what Nazis and Nazi sympathizers in this country were up to. In most case there was no warrant, no discussion with a Judge. Back then it was understood this was a war and the goal here was to win, not be scored on how well you followed the rules. Did they (for a while) shred the constitution, you betcha. Did it snap back when the war was over? Same as it always has before and since. A different time and a different world to be certain.

Re:How about hearing from the guy who ran it?

[teh*fink]

supplement that reading with this informative little clip from msnbc: http://www.prisonplanet.com/video/Countdown-nsa-Ha yden.wmv [prisonplanet.com]

Re:How about hearing from the guy who ran it?

[ElNonoMasa]

No checks and balances... just 'trust me, we're really doing this for your own good'... What particularly stands out is the misinformation about the Fourth Amendment in the last question...

Re:Ghouliani

[cold fjord]

Its sometimes interesting to look up the records [nyc.gov] of "fascists", especially since there seem to be so many of them these days.

... With the support of an unprecedented coalition of city leaders that transcended political, religious and ethnic affiliations, Giuliani defeated Manhattan Borough President Ruth Messinger -- making him only the second Republican reelected as mayor since Fiorello LaGuardia.

and...

.... To reduce crime, he implemented a "zero tolerance" approach, placing an emphasis on enforcing laws against nuisance crimes as well as serious offenses. Since 1993, the city has experienced an unprecedented 44 percent drop in overall crime and a 61 percent drop in murder, making New York the safest large city in America.

To stimulate the city's stagnated economy, Giuliani reduced the tax burden by eliminating the Commercial Rent Tax in most areas of the city, reducing the Hotel Occupancy Tax, and eliminating the Unincorporated Business Tax. As a result of these targeted tax cuts, the hotel and tourism industries are thriving, 180,000 private sector jobs have been created, and a national financial magazine named New York City the most improved American city in which to do business. Giuliani also cracked down on organized crime to lift the illegal tax the mob had exacted on certain New York City industries for generations. As a result, the Fulton Fish Market, the carting industry, and the city's main convention center have been liberated from organized crime, saving businesses and consumers hundreds of millions of dollars annually.

Faced with a $2.2 billion budget gap upon taking office, Giuliani lowered projected spending by $7.8 billion through a series of cost cutting measures and productivity improvements. He reduced the city's payroll by over 20,000 jobs without layoffs. He kept the rate of spending below the rate of inflation for the first time in New York City history and created a $500 million reserve fund.

In 1993, 1.1 million New Yorkers were receiving welfare. To bring an end to a philosophy that encouraged dependency on public assistance, Giuliani implemented the largest workfare program in the nation. Since his welfare reforms were enacted in March of 1995, 340,000 people have been moved off the rolls, saving $650 million annually in city, state and federal funds. To date, 175,000 people have completed the Work Experience Program, which provides welfare recipients with training to find permanent employment.