Blackboard and WebCT merge

Acidangl writes "Blackboard and WebCT, leading providers of enterprise software and services to the education industry have announced plans to merge." From the article: "Under terms of the agreement, Blackboard will acquire WebCT in a cash transaction for $180 million, which values the offer at approximately $154 million, net of WebCT's August 31, 2005 cash balance of $26 million. The ultimate value of the offer will vary depending on WebCT's cash balance at closing."

Wow

[zegebbers]

Given how many institutions use one of these or both, this will have a big impact on choice. Some of the horror stories that I've heard about webct admin aren't good. On the other hand, there was the Georgia Tech student who found the vulnerability in Blackboard.

Hopefully someone can provide some sort of competition to this company.

I look forward to..

[SillySnake]

the merging of two terrible web based systems for an even worse web based one.

Seriously, it's often so hard to find where a professor has put the file you're tyring to find. With so many different places to put things, it just gets students confused. Not to mention all the trouble one has to go to in order to find a specific post, send an e-mail, etc..

I don't mean to troll, but both systems could stand to see quite a bit of tweaking.

It all makes sense

[hansreiser]

Given how few schools are privately owned, I can see why consolidation might be necessary in the "enterprise software for the education industry" market.

Or did I miss something?

Less innovation.

[davecrusoe]

What this will ensure is less innovation in the online schooling front; competition generally drives innovation. Unfortunately, these two packages are so very cumbersome that innovation is unlikely; the pedagogical framework that once strengthened the software(s) is kaput.

It will be a challenge, but Moodle stands a great chance to out-think the combined WebCT/Blackboard group. What they MUST do effectively is reach out to districts - THIS is where the combined merger will find its force, in its broad reach.
~d

From a UI Standpoint

[mplex]

Usability on the products are horrible. We use WebCT where I work and we can't even get the professors to use it for the most basic tasks. The UI is horrible, and even after teachers are trained and start using it, they end up going back to a simple web page. We can't even get 15% of classes to use the system. I know CS professors who hate it and personally I do too. It is good for giving quizzes and posting things on the calendar, but beyond that NO ONE USES IT. I agree that the concept could be extremely powerful, but the implementation is just bad. And please don't tell me how professors are just too lazy to learn the system, they just don't have the time to waste troubleshooting a confusing system. In the end, it's usually easier to break out frontpage and post assignments and test dates on a simple website. IMHO, these products have a long ways to go before the time they are supposed to save is realized.

two bad choices

[commodoresloat]

I have some insight on this topic as a university professor. I've used both systems, and I was on the Academic Technology Committee when it was advising the CTO and CIO on purchasing decisions for such systems. We wound up paying for both. As you say, they both suck, and I'm sure whatever unholy combination is produced will suck even worse. At the time - 1999 or 2000 I believe - "open source" was something my colleagues on the committee had heard of but didn't know anything about, and the CTO and CIO were computer-savvy but looked on open source with disdain (this made sense as they were constantly wined and dined by folks who represent closed source companies looking for big deals). I was teaching summers at UCLA at the time and had the opportunity to use ClassWeb [ucla.edu], an open source alternative to such tools. My experience with the tool was exemplary; I thought it was easy to use, it fulfilled the necessary functions and was not needlessly confusing for students. It was also free. Best of all, the developer worked at UCLA so when there were features I wanted I was able to ask him for them and they were available in days. It was truly a classic case of the superiority of the open source model working well. For much less the price we paid for Blackboard and CT, which all the students complain about, we could have hired programmers to handle coding issues on classweb and had an open source solution that we could fine tune at will. But when I made the suggestion, the feeling around the table (particularly from the CTO and CIO) was, shut up hippie.... Today I don't use any such tools -- I still code my course web pages by hand using html and have some very primitive open source discussion board technology for discussions. I think it's necessary to have courses online these days for various reasons, but the tools offered by these companies are needlessly ornate and confusing. The open source model makes sense in general but especially in public university settings where costs are a relevant factor and where the freedom to tinker with code brings with it additional educational benefits.

A student's thoughts

[NeoSkandranon]

My university uses WebCT. It is a flaming piece of shit. I'm not sure if it's WebCT or just the entry/login portal, but I can't access webCT in anyhting other than IE because somehow cookies fail to set otherwise. It slows to a CRAWL under any kind of load. It's difficult to use, both for students and professors. The senior admin for my campus' network has basically admitted that the only reason we use it is because we're locked in for a time, and yes it does suck.

Blackboard wasn't quite as bad (used it at a community colleg) The UI was sketchy but at least i can use it under firefox.

Re:Classroom software is CRUCIAL these days

[kurtmckee]

professors just aren't good with computers

No kidding. I once had a professor come into class on the first day (he's about 60 years old) with a PDF he had generated on a Unix box. He used SSH to copy the file to the Windows desktop, double-clicked on it, and then stood there for a while. Eventually he left the room, returning with another professor.

This second professor used the mouse to show the first how to use the arrow buttons above and below the scrollbar. "I just usually click on these arrows to show more of the file."

God damned Blackboard....

[realityfighter]

This is a wide tangent, but...

I am SO sick of professors who use Blackboard/WebCT as a way to get around ordering textbooks or reading packets. I've had professors scan in hundreds of pages from a book, put them on a web in PDF form (two pages to a screen, so you had to read sideways), and expect us to print them out and bring them to class as though they were textbooks. This was done in the name of "saving us money," but really it was just a cop-out for professors who were too lazy to plan their courses ahead of time, or didn't want to get caught in the act of mass copyright infringement. Most of the students spent far more on printer ink than they would have at the copy shop or the bookstore, not to mention the wonderful feeling you get when your ink runs out in the middle of printing your term paper.

If anyone reading this is teaching a class next semester and is even remotely thinking about digitizing their textbook, DON'T DO IT. It only stretches the students' time and resources thinner, and wastes reams of paper - info packets printed at home are lucky to survive an entire semester without getting water damaged, torn apart, or lost in a pile of identical papers from other classes. A good rule of thumb is, if it's more than ten pages, put it in the reading packet. If you absolutely have to put something big online, make sure the PDF is readable on the screen, and don't expect the students to lug stacks of printer paper to class with them. The Blackboard/WebCT isn't there to make the students do your work for you.

Why not switch OSS?

[failedlogic]

Are you from an institution considering Blackboad or WebCT? Don't. It is the worst software that students and faculty can use. Don't believe me? Read all the other comments on /. and do a Google search.

I am a university student and several professors have been dilligently trying to upload files using WebCT for the better part of a week and its technical glitch after glitch and the stuff is not being posted up. This is a campus-wide issue. Shame to have wasted our tuition $$$'s on something I and a whole bunch of students rarely use.

I'm hopeful this with this merger, they decide to use an OSS management system. I could see a problem if the system was just a group of programmers getting together to make one. Since some systems have backing from Berkley and MIT, I would think that the university I attend would have used it.

I would be more in favor of separate systems. One to run quizzes, one for file transfers (hell there's something called FTP for that), another more secure one for grades (no grades are not on the WebCT thankfully). I can access most course-ountlines from other institutions from the WWW and using google searches and they're not on password protected servers. I don't see why institutions feel they should hide everything from others. A classroom discussion board would have been nice too.

Re:I look forward to..

[Therlin]

That's not a problem with the tool, but with poor instructional design. Just because a person knows how to teach face to face, it does not mean that they can create a good online course.

Re:Wow

[Goalie_Ca]

No, webct blows donkeys for bus fare. I've used it for my classes @ SFU. I really really hate it. Such a pain in the ass to navigate not to mention the shitty implementation.

Re:Saving paper

[lahvak]

I have serious doubts about online class managment systems saving paper. From what I have seen, most students print anything posted to Blackboard or WebCT. Then they loose it, and print it again. I hear from computer lab assistants that many students leave printed syllabi and assignments sitting on the printer. They print it, then they leave and don't even bother to pick it up, because they know they can always get it again online.

Re:Wow

[Seumas]

Seems like a waste of money to me. What's wrong with a teacher just using a blackboard and chalk or a whiteboard and pens? They work when the power is out. They don't require a staff to maintain and upgrade. They just work. I guess I don't get it. Why fix something that isn't broke (or dependant on so many things that can break)?

Re:Possible rising costs

[nietsch]

Your comments about unclean code ring so true with me. I tried once to extend a module of it. What should have been one day worth of coding turned into several week cutting and cleaning up a gigantic php file of >3000 lines, just to get an understanding what was really happening. When I finally submitted my code, the maintainer just threw away my code because because he favoured a slightly different approach of cutting it up. If I wanted my extension included i was welcome to do it all again. When an upgrade to the next stable version broke all my quizzes i gave up.

I think the problem with moodle/php is that is is rather easy for a non-programmer to change some functionality. But none of these enthousiasts are experienced programmers, and I get the impression that most of the people working at Martin Dougiamas' (the original author) company all have a pedagogy/education background. The end result is that the code will never be clean.
That will probably not make it any worse than BB or WebCT, a proprietary licence is by no means a guarantee for clean code, esp if you cannot see the code yourself.

PS: if you want visitors form /. , why don't you make an account here and put the url in your .sig?