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Microsoft

Microsoft Flouting DOJ Settlement? 580

An anonymous reader writes "According to the Washington Post, Microsoft is not adhering to the terms of its deal with the DOJ. Specifically, there are allegations that it is "trying to license key pieces of its technology at inflated rates" and "thwarting its antitrust settlement with the federal government". They're charging $100,000 just to see technical info about their communication protocols, and you only get $50,000 back if you decide you don't want to license them. Whoda thunk?"
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Microsoft Flouting DOJ Settlement?

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2003 @10:13AM (#6190471)
    He will have to invade and liberate Syria in order to find a few of these.
  • Re:supose... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mr2cents ( 323101 ) on Friday June 13, 2003 @10:17AM (#6190503)
    Microsoft couldn't care less about the law. They just do whatever they like, and if they get a settlement, they implement THAT however they like. Just plain arrogance.
  • by laetus ( 45131 ) on Friday June 13, 2003 @10:28AM (#6190578)
    Actually, It's a Wonderful Life [ozcraft.com] came out in 1946 directly after WWII and though had a happy ending, pretty much dealt with the shaddy side of the business world and one man's despair (and near suicide) because of it.

    It is a great movie and stands as one of the classics.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2003 @10:36AM (#6190644)
    " Enron was caught on Bush's watch, dimwit. Under Bush, to date no punishment, none likely."

    So, Enron is now stronger than ever, just like Arthur Anderson. Nothing bad has happened to either of them, right?

    [FYI: you might think this is true. However, both companies have been greatly damaged. As for Ken Lay, the problem is that what he did was legal during the Clinton Administration. He could not get away with doing it now, however, thanks to reform bills that Bush signed.]
  • Re:supose... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Kilted_Ghost ( 559000 ) <kilted AT tampabay DOT rr DOT com> on Friday June 13, 2003 @10:44AM (#6190704)
    "But Microsoft was allowed to charge for the protocols because servers were not part of the antitrust case. " Even thought this is Slashdot, at least try and read the article. That goes for whoever modded this up as well.
  • by Cackmobile ( 182667 ) on Friday June 13, 2003 @10:47AM (#6190728) Journal
    Typical conservative view point. Making arguments that have no founding. How is the International Criminal court a Kangaroo COurt. what buckup do you have for that. (And as an Aussie I take offense that Kangaroo is used in the negative) People who hate bush are not anti-american. As an Aussie i hate the government here in Oz, spleen venting, bile spewing hatred, but I love my country more than anything and thats even mopre why I am rising up against the current system.

    I love how anything anti-Israel is anti-semetic. The UN resolutions were that Zionism (which is the official idealogy of israel) is rascist. WHich it is. One country for one people with the exclusion of others is rascist.

    How can you say Kyoto has nothing to do with the environment. Reducing emissions is all about the environment. Another one of those unbackable statements.

    No doubt you will pick up on my typos/grammar errors to slap me down and prove u are right.
  • The DOJ settlement does allow for this. The problem does not lie in the fact that they are charging for the protocol inspection, but there are further terms which could be considered discriminatory. For instance, the independant audit at the licensee's expense with no assurance that the inspector is not reporting back extra information to Microsoft, or the severely crippling NDA which prompted one executive to say that "Basically, I'd have to shoot the engineers when they came back,". Now those are what the DOJ has to center in on, not some admission ticket price.
  • by DickBreath ( 207180 ) on Friday June 13, 2003 @11:02AM (#6190872) Homepage
    This isn't unfair competitive practices, this is competitive practices designed to protect their trade secrets.

    This is unfair competitive practices. The whole reason they are to disclose the protocols are the remedy the damage done to the competitive landscape caused by their past wrongdoing that they have been convicted of.

    The communication protocols are not to be a trade secret. That is the whole point of disclosing them. Because Microsoft has unfairly leveraged a monopoly to create new monopolies they now have to open the landscape to competition.

    I would love to get a copy of MS's protocols so I could write a proper exchange connector for unix. But I don't have a hundred grand to pony up, so it ain't gonna happen.

    That is exactly why it is unfair. Don't you get it? Competitors are entitled to the protocols. Microsoft is free to compete on the merits of their product, not on the secrecy of their protocols.
  • Re:Yes, he will. (Score:4, Informative)

    by finallyHasANickname ( 559395 ) on Friday June 13, 2003 @11:39AM (#6191231) Journal
    The Enron scandal flourished under Clinton, but ended under the Bush administration.

    Once upon a time, President Clinton had to deal with a problem. That problem was that the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC, which is pronounced "the ferk") had someone up and quit. Aw shucks. Who to get? Well, our fair President, against his better judgment, got a right wing fanatic from down south to sit in the FERC. Bummer. The poor guy was right in the middle of a good job with a kewl company--trying to get rid of all that public sector crap that carries high voltage power from place to place in Dixieland. Oh well. Duty calls.

    Fast forward to May 1999. The California agency for dealing with the physical consequences of the absurd right wing fantasy of "AB 1280", circa 1998 had to route the willy-nilly purchased and sold electric power in California. However, just as forecast an uncharacteristic heat wave swept northern California. It was beyond miserable. Oh my. Why were so many power plants down for maintenance? Why all at once? Why was the schedule for downtime changed? (Psssst. Hindsight informs us that the weather forecast was "beamed in" to the decision making headquarters at Enron down there where the heavenly Governor Bush promised always to look the other way.) The price of a megawatt-hour suddenly went to $400 with no ceiling in sight, and I suppose Ken Lay came in his $700 pants that day. Immediately, the California government commissioned a study. Strangely, a thorough report came through raht quick. There was a murmer about someone gaming the system. With a few more highest level power crises short term, everyone survived in California in 1999. In 2000, the evil science was refined. By 2001, the racket was licensed extortion as is common knowledge. The President of the California Public Utilities Commission (Loretta Lynch) told her top lawyer to dig in and sue the lazy bastards at the FERC, whose notions of laissez-faire included sleeping at the switch while your best friends down south print money through electric wires, choke natural gas lines, game the market, gouge customers, and bankrupt decently managed retail power companies without recourse. Why? Because Bill Clinton wanted to be "nice" to those on his right. The FERC was perverted. Yes. It happened while Clinton held ultimate responsibility. Yes. You can hang this on Clinton. However, when Bush's friends on the FERC kept assisting the milking of the California electric rate payers, after a while the conscience got a little stronger (along with the public outcry that leaked beyond the "lost-to-the-Republicans-anyway" i.e., negligible-to-W.-anyway state of California). When that racket stopped screwing California on schedule, the bets placed at the Enron power/futures/weather casinos in Houston started to lose money for their customers--typically the house itself. Just then there was a Frontline piece on public TV. I watched it. Why was it that all Ken Lay would do was laugh?

    Then came August of 2001, when Ken Lay was kind enough to free up the CEO chair for Jeffry Skilling. What a guy!

    You know the rest of the story, but now you know the part that we should blame on Clinton. Let the egg drip slowly down your right wing face now. You asked for it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2003 @11:48AM (#6191319)
    There is a lot of hype about the McDonalds' scalding coffee case. No
    one is in favor of frivolous cases of outlandish results; however, it is
    important to understand some points that were not reported in most of
    the stories about the case. McDonalds coffee was not only hot, it was
    scalding -- capable of almost instantaneous destruction of skin, flesh
    and muscle. Here's the whole story.

    Stella Liebeck of Albuquerque, New Mexico, was in the passenger seat of
    her grandson's car when she was severely burned by McDonalds' coffee in
    February 1992. Liebeck, 79 at the time, ordered coffee that was served
    in a styrofoam cup at the drivethrough window of a local McDonalds.

    After receiving the order, the grandson pulled his car forward and
    stopped momentarily so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her
    coffee. (Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often
    charge that Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in
    motion when she spilled the coffee; neither is true.) Liebeck placed
    the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from
    the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled
    into her lap.

    The sweatpants Liebeck was wearing absorbed the coffee and held it next
    to her skin. A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full
    thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body,
    including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin
    areas. She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she
    underwent skin grafting. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement
    treatments, sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonalds
    refused.

    During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700
    claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims
    involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This
    history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of
    this hazard.

    McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants
    advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to
    maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the
    safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell
    coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is
    generally 135 to 140 degrees.

    Further, McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company
    actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185
    degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn
    hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above,
    and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured
    into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn
    the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns
    would occur, but testified that McDonalds had no intention of reducing
    the "holding temperature" of its coffee.

    Plaintiffs' expert, a scholar in thermodynamics applied to human skin
    burns, testified that liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a full
    thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds. Other testimony
    showed that as the temperature decreases toward 155 degrees, the extent
    of the burn relative to that temperature decreases exponentially. Thus,
    if Liebeck's spill had involved coffee at 155 degrees, the liquid would
    have cooled and given her time to avoid a serious burn.

    McDonalds asserted that customers buy coffee on their way to work or
    home, intending to consume it there. However, the companys own research
    showed that customers intend to consume the coffee immediately while
    driving.

    McDonalds also argued that consumers know coffee is hot and that its
    customers want it that way. The company admitted its customers were
    unaware that they could suffer thirddegree burns from the coffee and
    that a statement on the
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2003 @12:45PM (#6191897)
    I work for a company that develops a product that uses the http protocol to move data between the client and the server. The app is written in Java and works well on Mac, Windows, Linux, and Solaris.
    We have to take firewalls into consideration of our customers' demands. Currently, we use the internal Java support for firewalls, which is http proxy, SOCKS4, and SOCKS5.
    Some of our customers have been requesting support for Microsoft's proxy server, and feel that it's unreasonable of us to not support their environment. This results in lost sales, plain and simple. The fact that Microsoft wants to charge us $100k for this information is not relevant to these people. They just want it to work with their network.
    Telling IT managers that they have to change to accomodate a piece of software is unreasonable, no matter what the underlying reasons are. THEY are the CUSTOMER. It's their money and they get to choose how to spend it.
    The $100k plus r&d time to implement a new java class would have a crippling effect on our price point, and would cause a number of our customers to turn from us.
    This decision has a serious trickle down effect that can't be ignored. It is not only stifling competition, but stifling development of new software and the marketplace.
  • Re:supose... (Score:2, Informative)

    by M1FCJ ( 586251 ) on Friday June 13, 2003 @01:05PM (#6192136) Homepage
    Wait until MS gets their first ICBM, then we'll see who's da boss...
  • Aargh (Score:3, Informative)

    by autechre ( 121980 ) on Friday June 13, 2003 @01:24PM (#6192365) Homepage
    No, the DMCA allows reverse-engineering for the purpose of interoperability. I think it would be pretty easy to claim this for a file sharing protocol. After all, music/movies will be protected by their DRM separately.

Mystics always hope that science will some day overtake them. -- Booth Tarkington

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