Results of Another Web Publishing Experiment

Dienyddio writes "Shadowmarch, an ambitious web publishing project launched by Tad Williams last year (previously mentioned on slashdot) is to cease the bi-monthly story format after one year. The sad news was broken by Tad on the site. It seems that there were just too few subscribers to make the format pay, this combined with the heavy load placed on Tad by writing two episodes a month and a paper book to pay the bills has proved too much. All is not lost, DAW books has purchased the rights to three books based on the Shadowmarch story. It is hoped that these books will maintain the community side of the site. Tad will also be increasing the number of background stories and details relating to the Shadowmarch world on the site in order to promote fan interaction."

advertizing

[capoccia]

probably should have been more advertising. this is the first time i'm hearing about this company.

Books vs. serials

[Todd Knarr]

I think this and prior attempts don't show that publishing on the Web doesn't work so much as they show that publishing books in serialized installments doesn't work.

Micropayments

[colmore]

OK, I know it's been said a million times before, but we really need micropayments. And $1 paypal donations don't count. It seems like there's a lot of money to be had with micropayments, so why hasn't something started up?

I guess I'm asking an open question. Micropayments have seemed like such a good idea for so long, why hasn't it happened yet?

Pay Per View Websites

[Steve Franklin]

What people fail to remember for some inexplicable reason beyond my ability to comprehend the mass mind, is that *personal* computers were originally developed as a hobby. The open source movement, free access to websites, the whole state of mind of computer hackers (not crackers), they all derives from the mentality of hobbyists, and hobbyists do not like to be charged for something they can do, or think they can do, themselves. Model airplane builders don't run out and buy ready-made kits if they can build them themselves. People who want to profit from the web need to keep this in mind.

Re:Books vs. serials

[No Such Agency]

I'm not sure that serialized books "don't work", so much as that people are so accustomed now to their serialized entertainment being televized weekly (or even daily!) that waiting for only 2 installments a month might not be very appealing to that many people. {loser}This is just my gut feeling, based on how long a week can feel when you're waiting for a new episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" to hit the tube{/loser}. Add to that the reluctance of many people to pay for electronic text (Hell, even Stephen King couldn't make that work!) and this venture had a lot going against it. Too bad, because I really like the idea of authors being able to sell their work online, even if half the readers end up not paying them to read it. After all, I'm sure many authors get lots of new fans via second-hand book sales and libraries!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:marketing

[RealisticWeb.com]

I have to agree. This reminds me of when adcritic.com went out of business. I used to love the site, and I went to it all the time. Then one day *poof* I went and it was out of commision. What troubled me is that they never put out a plea for help! I for one would have payed money for the service, but I was never asked to. I know in this situation, they already had a subscription service, but did they ever bother to put out a red flag? Did they put up a donation link and say "We are running out of money, if we don't get more subscriptions and donations, we are going to have to sell out" ? Did they get thier loyal fans to go tell all of thier chat room buddies to check it out, and give a donation or buy a subscription? It just seems like a waste to me to have a "community" based site, and then not take advantage of it when it's really needed.

Let's bear in mind

[Rogerborg]

That Tad - by his own admission [216.239.33.100] - isn't that hot on writing to a schedule. And I agree with him on this; when left to his own devices, he produces seriously high quality work. When the deadlines kick in, he becomes much more generic and (dare I say it?) can border on the mediocre.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy his work, I just think this ticking-clock scheme was a bad idea for his style of uncompromising "it's done when it's done" creativity.

An insight into "information wants to be free"

[dinotrac]

First, congratulations to Tad for finding someone to publish ShadowMarch. I've not read the installments, but getting someone to foot your bills so that you can write is a good thing.

Second,
this may be a small insight to those who believe that "free as in beer" is what all entertainment should be. I remember a gazillion posts on why it's ok to simply take music et al without concern for whether the artist gets paid. Two common threads that I can recall were:

1. We don't want to pay those stinkin' middlemen record companies and publishers.
2. Hey, creators create. There is and always will be plenty of stuff.

I have to agree with 1. I don't want to pay those stinkin' middlement record companies and publishers either. They really are a nasty bunch of thieves. OTOH, they will get people to pay for Tad's work and let him pay a few bills. The publishers make the fotune, but Tad can write without doing in the family.

2 is problematic. It seems to presume either that the most artists have no concern for the material world -- no desire for family, home, lights turned on, etc -- or that all art is equal and that every Joe down the street can write or sing with the very best of them. Such people should spend a weekend tied down in front of a constant stream of Suddenly Susan episodes. It isn't true of programmers and it isn't true of artists.

Re:subscriptions

[AdamJ]

btw, book people are generally not that computer literate. i mean sure they can use email and sht but they generally dont spend the time to read of of a website when they can go and buy a book to cozy up to. especially since the book they can put on their shelf and display when their finnished. but this is a whole other can of worms.

I think you're completely confusing two things here. Computer literacy has nothing to do with why many people prefer a proper book to reading on a computer. I'm extremely computer literate, but I don't exact relish curling up in my bed with the Athlon, nor do I want to be reading e-books during a RPG session.

Lose the "btw, book people are generally not that computer literate. i mean sure they can use email and sht" and you have an interesting point, but claiming that computer illiteracy is one reason that e-books haven't caught on dilutes it.

Hobbyists vs. Pros... and why both fail.

[2Flower]

Online publishing isn't always intended to be one's primary source of revenue. I think this example and the Stephen King experiments show that at least for now, we don't have a workable system that will allow someone to live off what they're writing online. (Closest I've seen are extremely popular webcomics like Penny and 8-bit, but they also have side businesses and advertising and sometimes don't meet their goals.) It's not time for pro writing online yet. I have faith that a workable formula will be found, but until then, it's not a bet I'd wanna take.

For folks like me who are just publishing because they like to write and something compells them so that they HAVE to write, with the end result being freely available, it's much easier. I've got a day job that pays the bills so I can come home and write. Works pretty well in terms of keeping me in the black...

The problem then becomes 'Death by Popularity'. As much as we love the internet as a bastion of free speech and free expression and so on and so forth, bandwidth is decidedly NOT free. The slashdot effect can pretty much wipe out your website -- and then your ISP will cheerfully charge you for all that traffic brought on by thousands of happy readers enjoying your work.

Even pro sites and webcomics have this problem, where they start small, get popular, and get crushed by bandwidth costs from so many people simply digging their stuff. It's even worse for aspiring independent bands; the RIAA can afford to pipe thousands of MP3s off a website (even if they don't wanna), but Joe Q. Guitar Player might not be able to.

I really hope someone comes up with a technology or a revnue model that works. I'll keep writing regardless of whether or not it turns a penny, but it'd be one less headache if I didn't have to worry about my work costing me an arm and a leg to get out there.

Obligatory whoring plug for said work: Unreal Estate [pixelscapes.com], a scifi comedy. It's got open source reality innit. Whee! Now let's see if it survives the link being posted to slashdot. (Probably will since nobody reads comments, right? *EL WINK*)

Re:money money money

[Aanallein]

d: EXCELLENT Then he'll make more money doing it on paper and good luck to him!

He will. He's one of the most popular authors of quality fantasy (as opposed to the kind written by the likes of Goodkind), and any book with his name on the cover is almost guaranteed to sell very well.
It was a certainty way from the start that Shadowmarch would never make anywhere near the amount of money he makes with his books. So Tad was writing War of the Flowers (or whatever it will be renamed to if he finds a title he likes better) for money, and Shadowmarch as an experiment of how things could be.

Shadowmarch was never started for the money; yet unfortunately it has failed (in part) because of it.

And that is a damned shame. Because Shadowmarch was indeed an experiment of how positive things could be. There was no publisher involved; it was just Tad and a few friends who set up and took care of everything - publishing the episodes in plain HTML to guarantee readability (even 20 years down the road), thus making it possible to grep through those episodes looking for references you'd missed before.

Beyond this, the reason for the project, Tad wanted more immediate reader feedback; what did we like, what did we want to know more about, which clues did we pick up? Before Shadowmarch he only got feedback starting close to a year after finishing a book; by which time he'd long since moved on to the next work.
Yet with Shadowmarch, feedback was constant and immediate. And as a reader, this was awesome beyond belief; I'd gladly have paid a lot more than the price of a hardcover (rather than quite a bit less as was the case now) just to be able to see our comments have a noticable influence on the story; to see the world evolve before our very eyes.
Shadowmarch will go on. We'll see more of the world in the three books DAW will be publishing [penguinputnam.com], and the website with its awesome community will continue to exist as well. Yet the awesome experience of this project has not managed to survive, and I fear that means a very real end to my hopes for the future of 'epublishing.'

Re:money money money

[LES..]

I personally would go for 'e' but objectively it would have to be 'd'

I would also like to point out that inspite of the story coming to a conclusion in August there is still much to be gained form subscribing even now.

You will get to read 30 or 31 chapters of an excelent fantasy story, access to some fantastic art and delve into the rich lore of a great fantasy world.

Re:Pay Per View Websites

[LES..]

the whole state of mind of computer hackers (not crackers), they all derives from the mentality of hobbyists, and hobbyists do not like to be charged for something they can do, or think they can do, themselves.

Consider the open source idea, a project is started, the original author in control, the author is in this for the love of it but opens up source and others contribute giving feedback on a wide range of ideas that are built upon. These are hobbyists.

Tad as a bestseller author started a project where he had an idea, then opened that idea up on the web as an evolving and ongoing concern. He brings in art work from others, he starts a line of dialog with his readers which allows him to get a feel of what people want and where to take the story.

This is not open source, Tad has full ownership of Shadowmarch but it is something wild to experience where your complaints and whines are picked up and answered by a master of his art. When i read Shadowmarch and comment on the story, then have my questions answered in the next episode, it feels like i have griped about the linux kernel then had Linus say "Here you go, have that feature" instead of "Code it yourself".