XP Service Pack Does the Impossible

Peyna writes "This article over at C|net discusses the upcoming Microsoft Windows XP service pack, which will contain the normal bug fixes, but more importantly, will make XP more modular, allowing you to override their default products. I assume this means Internet Explorer and possibly some other apps as well."

Makes it more modular?

[RossyB]

I'm sure a read a story this morning which said they were only 'hidden', not removed.

So, are the core IE executables/DLLs actually deleted from the disk? Or are the just disabled?

Less is more...

[Mattcelt]

It amazes me how incredibly clever Microsoft is as they twist words. They go by the letter of the law, not the spirit, and we all suffer.

This is a very enlightening article, I think:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/254 23.html

I honestly wish I were clever enough to use their own tactics against them, but looking at how difficult the courts have made it, it seems impossible. How do we keep them from doing this to us over and over again?

It isn't anything you can't do now.

[the-banker]

This SP does NOT make Windows more modular. It simply is a convenient interface to override default applications.

You can't uninstall IE or its libraries - they still will load on startup. What you can do is associate URLs to Moz or whatever.

This can all be done now, just not very conveniently for the average user. All the SP adds is a Control Panel applet to facilitate the association changing.

Marc

This has nothing to do about being modular

[Bravid98]

This service pack will do nothing to make windows modular, it simply will allow the user to change the default program associated with a file extension simpler. It does not remove any MS software from Windows. The default program thing isn't anything spectacular, I'm more interested in the part that says that XP won't bug you until you sign up for passport. That right now has to be the biggest pain related to XP, the damn thing just won't go away!

Could this keep Mozilla OUT???

[dr_funk]

According to this [theregister.co.uk] article, XP SP1 doesn't remove the apps, it just hides them. One of the FEATURES of the middleware hiding app is that other programs need to register themselves through a new API to be the default web browser or email client or media player etc... My question is will the API documentation have the same "Anti-OpenSource" clauses that MS has grown so fond of recently??? Would this prevent Mozilla from being the default browser??

Re:Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary?

[Pave Low]

Does this Service Pack raise the dead? What about walking on water? Does it do cold fusion? Because all those things are "impossible" to achieve to. So without any context, the title is meaningless.

Re:It isn't anything you can't do now.

[DarkDust]

ACK... simply hiding IE and other things is not the same as removing them. Windoze XP does NOT get modular by tweaking some Registry entries about what program to use as default.

It's a very clever move by MS do release this SP as many people really will believe MS is moving in the right direction with this while they're in fact standing still.

I doubt we'll see any really modular Windows ever, and even if we do than surely not because of MS changing their mind but because they are forced by the DoJ... let's see how the trial turns out.

What about the EULA?

[toupsie]

While this is a welcomed change for Microsoft to open up their operating system and play nice with third party companies, what has Microsoft done with the EULA for SP1? That is the real reason not to use XP -- not because it doesn't play nice with RealAudio. The XP EULA is affront to an individual's right to cpu privacy.

Actually this may apply to Win2K SP3 too...

[frleong]

This link [microsoft.com] contains some API and registry changes that allow OEMs and other vendors to change the default programs from e-mail, JavaVM to media player within Windows.

Re:And if you're using a warez copy of Win XP

[kenthorvath]

I wonder if the key is in plain text inside of the service pack's binary. Can I change the key that it looks for in the code and have a working copy with a hex editor?

Re:And all this time...

[twilightzero]

They're scared because the continuing trial has been going very badly for them. If you follow the daily coverage, just about every day one of their witnesses ended up making a fool of themselves in one way or another. The gov't lawyers on the case have been effective enough in getting information that at one point MS had to cut almost 1/3 of their witnesses to avoid even more debacles.

They still swear they did nothing wrong and still continue to file motions to get the case dismissed summarily, but they're also obviously aware that the case is going not in their favor at the moment. Now I'm not saying the gov't lawyers have been angelic either, they've gotten caught with their share of knuckle slaps by the judge also. But from the perspective I see from the daily coverage, MS is keenly aware that they've been made fools of repeatedly and many of their key witnesses have been discredited. They probably view this as a way to try and stave off more penalties by appearing to have a change of heart (in the face of stiffer penalties, of course) just long enough to get the trial done with.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:YOu are too shortsighted

[MrResistor]

you have that computer loaded with Longhorn and a dozen or so Mirya tablets, one for each meeting attendee. They can work on materials being shared on one desktop in the same room, ala a whiteboard.

No they can't, because Mira only allows one user per machine at a time. Version 2, which will likely be released in 2004, will allow... 2 users! So no, it will be impossible to do what you discribe using Mira in the forseeable future.

I won't argue that Mira could be something cool, but it is hamstrung by Microsofts absurd user licensing policies. I expect that it will be possible to do what you describe once these devices are hacked to run Linux, but Microsoft has no plans to give you that functionality any time soon.

That said, though, it would be easy enough to create similar functionality using Linux with much cheaper hardware. Those web tablets have been mentioned, which seem to run about half the price of a Mira tablet, or a laptop would also work, and there are some laptops with touchscreens.

In short, there is nothing particularly cool or innovative about Mira. MS is taking something that's simple to do with *nix/X windows and hamstrung it to fit their licensing model.

Why the hell is it middleware all of a sudden?

[zodar]

The fact that Microsoft has gotten everyone to call an *application* like Windows Media Player "middleware" is a victory in itself for them. This is *not* middleware. There is no good goddamn reason why WMP has parts of its code in the OS and vice versa. The only reason MS has done that is to make the OS and their (not) middleware apps so inextricably intertwined that they can truly claim that it's impossible to remove the apps without destroying the OS. They take chunks of code from the browser and other apps and put it into the OS. Then they take chunks of the OS code and put it into the browser. That's the only reason why they can call those apps middleware with a straight face. Go read the Findings of Fact from the last antitrust trial (Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson's) and you'll see what I mean. What I need is a link to the page. Karma whores! Fetch me a link!

Re:It isn't anything you can't do now.

[tshak]

You can't uninstall IE or its libraries

Ya, I hate how I can't remove DLL's shared by hundreds of applications and Windows features... :-)

It simply is a convenient interface to override default applications.


This is perfect. This promotes competition by allowing the common user to replace IE as their default browser or even an OEM (pending overthrowing MS's current draconian licensing) alowing a user to make the simple choice themselves.

Closed-source solution

[cpeterso]

If Microsoft tries to legally prevent open-source programs from using their helper-app registration APIs, then just write a closed-source proxy app that will register the open-source app as the helper. This is the reverse strategy that some companies try to use to create open-source proxies to dynamically load GPL libraries. :-)

Re:And all this time...

[liquid_schwartz]

In reality though Microsoft has already won this case. By dragging the case on for so long the issues are de facto settled. As long as this case is slowly grinding it's way to completion, M$ can do whatever they want without even being bound by a legal agreement.

Re:VNC has been doing this, and better

[Professor J Frink]

That's odd, we don't have any problem running our hardware control machines across VNC. Ok, on a modem it isn't fun fun fun but on anything better than that it's perfectly acceptable.

And running X-ray diffractometers and SQUID magnetometers isn't exactly simple text-based stuff either (a proper unix program would be but you know what Windows programmers are like: let's make it all buttons and clicking contrary to the fact that most people just want a freaking cli interface that works and doesn't require you to pick out high resolution objects with the mouse instead of just typing in the exact angles for example).

Although we have PC-Anywhere on there as well (which may be better, I dunno) it means we can connect up to those machines from practically any type of modern platform, ie we don't have to piss about rebooting into Windows just to control a couple of windows on another box. Added to that the fact that you can sling VNC quite happily onto anything else for serving and you're set: the users don't have to learn anything new they still use the same old clients.

You can compare the bandwidth requirements and cpu requirements and blah blah blah but the fact that VNC is here, has been for years and works on any system we use (Unix, Windows, Macs, even RISC OS) makes it a sure fire winner.

Anyway, at least nobody here has been sucker enough to get XP in the first place which must be a goddamn record for this dept (I'm ignoring the pirating scum and the ripped-off copies they had within days, naturally).

Anything else is X, and I don't need to point out the sheer Joy of its network transparency now do I? (Seeing as I'm often doing graphical analysis/editing and sometimes using OpenOffice to look at people's PowerPoint presentations at home via our cable connection without using anything other than my default desktop).

I really hate to agree with Microsoft, but...

[newerbob]

...allowing OEMs to "customize" windows is bad news for consumers.

I just bought a Compaq PC that was "Enhanced" by Compaq. Most of these enhancements were annoying at best, and detrimental at worst.

For example, it came bundled with Roxio EZ-CD creator preinstalled. This breaks windows XP's built in CD-ROM burning that lets you simply drop files on the CD-ROM icon in the explorer.

It came with about 6 useless programs that all took up space in the toolbar tray. I spent about an hour getting rid of them.

The browser came with some silly browser-bar extensions (how often do I need to visit Compaq.com?) and the toolbar is set to say "Microsoft Internet Explorer--Enhanced by Compaq")

It came with some stupid imaging packacge preinstalled that broke the "filmstrip" preview mode that XP has.

Considering all of this, I shudder when I think of all the "enhancements" that vendors will add if given the chance.

Apple doesn't let vendors much with the OS when it sells boxes. Why should Microsoft?

Re:Modular my *ss - Lets talk about Mira :-)

[Dwonis]

It probably uses RDP (ala rdesktop [rdesktop.org] / Windows Terminal Services), which is more efficient than RFP (ala VNC).

What I'd like to see is some sort of open-source RDP server.