Our New Pearl Harbor 1402
Eerily, the scene invokes disaster movies -- a number of which have actually shown the World Trade Center towers being blown up. Staring across the harbor on this gorgeous day, it takes a few seconds to realize that this isn't the evocation of something new and horrible, but the real thing, our own Pearl Harbor, perhaps even worse, since it struck us closer to home and reminded us all how technology can bring us all nose-to-nose with war in seconds, and there are no real barriers between people willing to use it in evil ways and us. Technology allows us to see the building collapse before the reporters even know what has happened. We have to try and make sense of it ourselves.
The silence is stunning, unprecedented for mid-morning, mid-week anywhere near Manhattan island. Everyone is in shock. Stories, malls, business are closing, their workers crying, distracted, unsure of how to behave.
Technology turns planes into weapons. It tracks aircraft hundreds of miles away. It brings us instant and horrific images. It sends us to e-mail, telephones and cell phones to spread news, facts, rumors and stories.
We are both shocked and oddly prepared. Sci-fi and other forms of popular culture have been preparing us for this kind of Techno-Armageddon for years. Technology can do all sorts of amazing things, but it can't protect us from a handful of determined people. We've never seen anything like it, yet in a strange way we have thought of it for years.
Standing over the harbor, I did something I haven't done in 20 years. I dropped to my knees -- following the lead of a bunch of strangers -- and prayed. I have a bunch of friends in somewhere in that Techno-Armageddon, and just wanted to post these thoughts. If anybody wants to post their own, hopefully here's a good place.
What repercussions (Score:3, Interesting)
In the wake of this tragedy, I think we need to examine the repercussions.
As for the US's retaliation, I think it should be swift and decisive. I think there should be a battery of cruise missles launched at every known, suspected or rumored terrorist hangout, EVERYWHERE in the world. There are arguments to this that we should wait until we are sure who it is, that we should not retaliate at all because this will just perpetuate the hostilities.
This is bull-shit. When colombian drug dealers killed DEA agent, Kiki Camarena, the DEA broke down every suspected drug dealer's door with or without evidence of any crimes. The DEA fucked them up really good. Since that time, DEA agents have led charmed lives. In many cases DEA agents are in peril, but only live because the Druggies know better than to touch a DEA agent for the repercussions. In the same light, it is clear to me and should be to everyone else that a serious strike against ALL possible/suspected terrorist organizations will send a similar message.
I think we should consider the movie "The Siege" with Denzel Washington. In the movie, following three or four terrorist attacks the city of New York was brought to a standstill. They declared Marshall Law. This was the effect on one city. In real life, with todays terrorist attacks, most state universities were shut down, many, many businesses all over the nation are closed. Lots of people will begin to live in fear.
This is, of course, what the terrorists want. When we begin to live in fear, we have betrayed the principles of our very country. We must strike back at these and all terrorists. We must send a message to this sick and twisted community that the US will not stand for this.
Beyond whatever reprisals the President decides to launch. I think we will begin to see some other serious repercussions. Do you think air travel will be the same? I thought it was very strict as it was. We may have to submit to cavity searches before too long.
Here's an interesting issue and one that is well to debate on Slashdot. It is said on just about all the major news networks that there has been an intelligence breakdown. That the terrorists use sophisticated encryption measures and that our intelligence agencies are under-funded and don't have the ability to keep tabs on the terrorists. Question: would you be willing to trade your personal privacy for maybe some further measure of security from terrorists? Would you grant the people running Carnivore greater rights into your life in order to perhaps prevent more events like this? Is the encryption export ban such a bad thing when stacked against 50,000 people's lives?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
I don't know if we should put up with a greater intelligence presence. I know that is what we will experience. That is pretty clear. But what is obvious to me is that we must rise above this, we must not live in fear, and we must make these sons-of-bitches PAY for what they've done to assure that they can never do it again.
rebuilding the towers... (Score:5, Interesting)
Any other thoughts on this matter? Should the towers be rebuilt?
Notes for the day... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's ironic and sad...
Well, US intelligence is enamored of high tech (Score:5, Interesting)
When your biggest enemy is Russia, almost as technically advanced as you, this may make sense.
When your biggest enemy is a terrorist living in the mountains of Asia, and plotting an attach face to face over Coleman lantern light, the best spy satellites in the world won't help you, you need someone on site.
Iran was overthrown becuase we had no agents in the Ayatollah's movement, and this may be a similar situation.
Re:rebuilding the towers... (Score:5, Interesting)
Technology? (Score:5, Interesting)
What technology? Guy walks into a plane, shoots pilots, and turns the yoke. These events could have happened at any time since the towers were first constructed 30 years ago. What is this rant about technology for?
And yet... (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't Armageddon. That sounds too much like the stupid movie and it cheapens the fact that someone somewhere is responsible for this. This is the real thing, and it's not about the planes or the black boxes or the television. It's about the people, because that's what Matters.
Re:rebuilding the towers, Make them bigger (Score:1, Interesting)
If I remember correctly the Twin Towers USED TO BE the 5th and 6th largest buildings on the planet. If we build new ones I think they should be the largest buildings on the planet to show greatness out of this tragedy.
Re:News Links (Score:1, Interesting)
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i agree with the sentiment, but at the same time, don't forget the scenes of palestinians celebrating in the streets and treating this as a holiday, giving candy to the kids, etc., Iraqi television played patriotic songs over the WTC collapsing, textbooks in the schools run by the Palestinian Authority teach kids _history_ that it's inevitable that all Jews be killed and Israel be exterminated, that anyone who kills a Jew goes to heaven, etc.
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know about that. Katz is just a "columnist" (and I use that word in a very loose sense) paid to produce tripe regularly. Whether he actually believes what he writes is doubtful, and rather besides the point.
I was going to say it's a bit sickening to exploit such a horrific tragedy for petty journalistic gain, but I'm not really sure what Katz's motives are in posting this, so I'll leave it at that.
Retaliation - How We Can Fight Back (Score:2, Interesting)
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In the immediate wake of this monstrous tragedy, one thing that strikes me is the resilience of New Yorkers. Reports of people aiding victims at ground zero, buying cases of water for victims, and of many hour waits to donate at local blood centers. I shudder to think of how this tragedy may have affected members of our small community, I saw a few vicitms already on campus today, but I also saw a busload of students leaving to brave the congested evacuation routes of Long Island to give blood.
They are celebrating our tragedy in areas of the world that would seek to do us harm. Already I hear cries that this is war, we should turn [certain countries] into parking lot, they kill our kids, we should level their whole civilizations.
It is obvious to state the following: The perpetrators of this heinous attack would want exactly that. For us to turn against one another and fuel the fires of prejudice and hate. For us to weaken the bonds of strength that is the diversity of us. They have succeded in attacking our land, our people, and our psyche.
They can bomb America today, but we will be open for business tomorrow.
Now is the time we reach out to help each other thru the post-traumatic period of time. It is important that everyone talk to each other to overcome the shock of this tragedy. Hopefully, people with information to catch these terrorists will not be afraid to come forth, and the forces who have sworn to give their lives for this country can and will bring them to justice.
But I hope that people will continue to show the passion and courage to continue to reach out and help our fellow Americans in a time when we need it the most. The Red Cross had enough blood in reserve for today, but in the coming days they will need more.
We can retaliate by showing the engineers of this tragedy that the greatest nation on earth will be back to work and school tommorow, shaken but not undaunted. We can show them that they will not change our way of life, our love of freedom, nor turn us against each other. The history of this nation has shown that a multicultural nation can and will overcome the most insurmountable obstacles. I think history will show future generations that the aftermath of this tragedy displayed Americans in their finest hour. I hope some of you out there feel the same way I do.
--Protik Majumdar
Re:Free Parking (Score:2, Interesting)
Not everybody in/from the mid east are psychopathic America-hating killers. They're people like you and me. We cannot destroy an entire nation for the sins of one man, no matter how great those sins. The same goes for iraq.
Revenge is a dish best served cold. (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, our retaliation must be decisive (and complete) to make sure that this sort of thing does not become more common. But it doesn't have to be swift. We must make sure that we completely roll up whatever organization is responsible and anyone who was an accomplis. It is far more important to get this right and do it completely than it is to be quick and do a half@$$ed job that doesn't get all the terrorists or gets the wrong people. No one must doubt that we got the right people and that we got them all. That will take time, but as the saying goes, "revenge is a dish best served cold." This is as true in the world of intel/counterintel as it is in fiction. But the time it takes should be because of we are methodical, not because we fail to commit the proper resources to do the job.
"Our new pearl harbor" ?? (Score:2, Interesting)
I understand the idea of "day of infamy" etc, but can we not take this story for itself? Let us
mourn the tragedy that has occured instead of waxing eloquent about anything and everything, regardless of whether or not it's relevant. It seems Katz obsession with technology does not let him see the forest for the trees. Technology is NOT the story here, it is the loss of life. When I saw the buildings collapse, I did NOT think "My God, what a horrible use of technology that was" but rather "May God have mercy on us all."
This is not a time to troll a developing story with flowery imagery and self victimization. It is a time to help support our fellow Americans and give each other strength. My prayers go out to all of those involved, our leaders currently making extremely difficult decisions, our country, and our world.
God be with us.
Re:What repercussions (Score:0, Interesting)
The point is to partially to bring the current terrorists to justice. That is a small part. Doing that will not bring back our dead, but it will make us feel better. The main point, though, is to show other would be terrorists that if they attempt anything like this, not only will they be killled, but also their families, friends, etc.
The only way to stop terrorists is to have them terrified of reprocussions of their acts.
So yes, contact your government. But let them know that you understand...the enemy has chosen the terms of engagement. They have clearly said there is no distinction between military and civilian targets. We must locate the people responsible for this tragedy, and make them wish they had never done it.
Re:Hopefully this hasn't already been posted (Score:2, Interesting)
Subject: 911 GOD HELLP US!!! [google.com]
A Prediction:
A Mr. Xinoehpoel will be visited by many uniformed me with automatic weapons and taken before an Inquisitor..
His future becomes hazy beyond this point..
The Date! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What repercussions (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm frightened... (Score:2, Interesting)
Second, I want to tell you about my feelings about this. I'm not living in America, so maybe I don't know exactly how it is for you guys there; but even I am damn frightened.
I'm frightened about what will come tomorrow...
I'm frightened abou what the U.S. Government will do...
I'm frightened about what will happen in Germany...
and... finally...
I am frightened if this IS the 3rd World War!
I'm now 15 years old, never had been in touch with war and lived a nice peacefully life... and now?
Thousands died today... a whole city looks like the location of apocalypse... the sky was burning and stones were falling down...
and that was only the first day.
I'm frightened about what to come... and this was jzst the first day...
Rebuild the Towers (Score:2, Interesting)
future safeguards against airline hijacking (Score:2, Interesting)
* Release a potent, fast-acting sleep gas
* Lock out all internal controls completely
* Autonomously land the plane at the nearest satisfactory airport, perhaps with rudimentary guidance from the nearest control tower
In any case, our antiquated flight telemetry and control systems should be improved along the way. It's surprising that we couldn't even be sure what had become of the missing planes, or which planes had crashed, until the smoke cleared.
I am still in shock, and my sympathies go out to those traumatized by this cruel tragedy. Let's all hope for brighter days ahead.
Re:Madness (Score:2, Interesting)
Ghandi said, (Score:5, Interesting)
M.K. Ghandi
This following is only a sig.
Re:What repercussions (Score:1, Interesting)
A trial and conviction would be a much more satisfying and peaceful solution
Except for one problem - there will still be hundreds more zealots lining up to do the next big terrorist act, possibly even bigger than this one. That kind of zealotry cannot be quashed by throwing a few people in jail. Given that though, I'm afraid I can't think of any better solutions.
Bombing the crap out of any country that supports terrorism (e.g. by allowing terrorists to hide out in their country) should eventually result in all governments refusing to harbour terrorists, that would at least make it very difficult for terrorists to *have* a safe hideout where they can sit and plan such horrible attacks - the overall message from society should be that terrorists will not be tolerated, will not be "safely harboured" anywhere they go, and will be hunted down wherever they go. Terrorists like bin Laden (assuming it was him) can exist precisely because of a culture of tolerance - he lives in a society that is willing to safely harbour him, thus condoning his actions. This condoning creates an environment where terrorists can prosper. Bombing the crap out of any such environment leaves no place for terrorists to go. Throwing a few in jail will do nothing to stop the problem.
Remember, six bin Laden flunkies are already spending their lives in jail for the Feb 93 WTC bombing - that didn't exactly stop this from happening, did it? There are hundreds more zealots volunteering to be the next ones.
Kill them all - as horrible as that sounds, it is the only solution. Unless someone else can offer another solution that will actually work? We know from experience that cute little trials and punishments are ineffective.
Revenge is swift... (Score:2, Interesting)
This is completely unverified
I guess the question of revenge is about to be settled. The spiral of violence will now probably continue, as there are unverified reports coming from Kabul (Afghanistan) of explosions.
As Afghanistans could set them off themselves (let's just call it unbounded joy) this might be a duck, but is Tomohawks caused it, then it's another story. Then I would demand an answer from each and every intelegence agency how can define with such certainty who is responsible for these acts of violence in less than a day, and failed to notice the warning signs at the time when this was still in preparation. This wasn't some unaccountable madman having a bad day. This was essentialy preplaned and premedidated.
If someone decided that person XY is guilty and the country he was last seen in should be bombed, where is at least a shred of evidence? You don't need one?
Ok, quiz question: Who was found guilty of Oklahoma City bombing?
Quiz quistion for bonus points: Is there evidence needed in order to commit outside agression on other country?
Related to response to my thoughts under different article:
Do you think that attacks (seen as random and FUD related) on different countries that COULD be responsible generate more friends or more enemies. I would think that something gets punished for something he didn't do he will just do it after being finished with. Whay waste the good punishment.
Hipothetical question on SAT might be: One country sponsored terrorist act. Three countries (including the perpetrator)get indiscriminately punished for this. How many countries will have more than 50% willingness of becoming your friends?
Put it on poll and think about the results of USA current foreign policy
How could the ATC be so careless? (Score:2, Interesting)
Recent Events (Score:1, Interesting)
I woke up this morning to a phone call about the World Trade towers going down. I got in touch with my friends in New York and made sure that they were okay. They are still here but so many others are gone. I find myself deeply saddened and yet unsurprised at the magnitude of this assault. It was so horrible to hear of people jumping out of the 78th story trying to save their lives. The list of atrocities goes on and on. The natural reaction in any human would be a desire to strike back. This scares me even more.
I am concerned that people will become so obsessed with the idea of revenge that they won't stop to ask the really important questions about why this happened. The people who hijacked those planes were on a suicide mission. What is so important to them that they were willing to give their lives to make this statement? What has our own government done to contribute to the events leading up to this mass destruction? People are outraged at the loss of innocent lives yet who among us is really innocent when we support the strong armed tactics of our govenrment. We support it actively in our anger and our intolerance. We support it by casting our votes or by not casting them. We support it by choosing to be uninformed or blind. We support it by staying quiet. And, we refuse to take responsibility for our support. Truly, I am ashamed. The deaths of all of those people are not just on the shoulders of the terrorists, but should lay heavy on all our hearts. I believe that we allowed and invited this action with our arrogance. I hope for a wake up call but I suspect we will regress to a more primitive mentality, one of violence.
Perhaps I will be surprised? I am open to the possiblity because I believe that we are capable of compassion and growth and intelligent leaps in consciousness. If I didn't hold fast to these beliefs I don't think I could get out of bed in the morning. My prayers go to the people who have lost loved ones in this tragedy.
Clancy's solution (Score:2, Interesting)
It's hard to get across how large they are, and how many people are in them. You see the twin towers in pictures surrounded by what looks like half-pint buildings, but those buildings are actually skyscrapers the equal of any found elsewhere. It is Manhattan, after all, the capital of the planet in many ways. But the World Trade Center was so much huger it made those other skyscrapers look puny. It was like a sci-fi concept, a city in a tower. So many dead people I can hardly bear thinking about it.
A few disjointed points:
1) Who did this? It's very peculiar. They would have needed inside help to pilot the planes and get weapons on board. These were domestic American flights after all, and they hijacked four at once. This seems beyond the ability of a "death to infidels" yahoo, even Bin Laden. Look at how clumsy the first bombing was, with the rental van. It could be Bin Laden, but if it is, this elevates him to the status of a true supervillain. Like a comic book or action movie character, he'd have the ability to bypass any security system with ease.
Supporting this theory is the fact that only religous lunatics do suicide bombing attacks. You didn't see Timothy McVeigh sticking around to enter paradise. Also, Bin Laden did attack the World Trade Center before. But still, this seems so much beyond anything he's previously done, or anyone has previously done, I have large doubts.
If not a terrorist, then a government. But what government would do such a thing, knowing it's a declaration of war? The US will certainly retaliate lethally against any nation that is behind this, count on it. So I really don't know what to think.
2) What was the destination of the fourth plane? Why does everyone keep saying Camp David? Look it up on a map, that plane was heading straight for Washington. Yes, the target could have been Camp David, but why are they ruling out other targets? I would have aimed straight for the Capitol myself, just like in that Tom Clancy novel.
3) Speaking of Tom Clancy, the one book I've read by him, and probably the only book of his I'll ever read, is indeed the relevant book. Can't remember it's name, but it's the one where Japan goes to war with the US. After Japan's defeat, a frustrated Japanese-American pilot flies his fully fueled commercial jet airliner straight into the Capitol during Inauguration Night, killing the newly elected President and virtually all of Congress. The only surivor is the new vice-President, former National Security Advisor Jack Ryan...
It's a cheesier than hell cliffhanger ending, a crude "buy my next book and find out what happens" ploy that would be embarassing even for a pulp serial, but it is an interesting concept. I remember reading it and thinking, "Wow, why doesn't somebody ever do that? What a great idea for a terrorist". Still, even Clancy didn't conceive of four hijackings at once. This day is so strange, it really does make action movies seem plausible. Never had that feeling before.
My wife read the next book, where Jack Ryan assumes the Presidency. She said the first thing he did is immediately repeal Ford's executive order prohibiting assassinations by the American government. He dismissed it as a piece of paper signed by a guy who was never elected and set out to kill everyone involved with the attack. I have to admit, I hope Bush does the same.
Re:rebuilding the towers... (Score:4, Interesting)
"As a sidenote, shouldn't there be a way for the ground control to override the controls of a hijacked plane?"
read: a hijacked plane. not *any* plane, but one that's already been hijacked. Reinforce the cockpit door and walls, add a system where the pilots could monitor the cabin via hidden video cameras, and where they could notify ground sources of their situation if necessary, and in case of breach, hand control of the aircraft over to ground control. However, this hand-off could only be initiated by the aircraft itself. The facial/fingerprint recognition is a good idea as well.
This way a hijack would need to be two-pronged. It would have to attack the plane, but also take hte ground control. Exponentially harder to coordinate.
As another poster already mentioned, 90% of the systems are already in place. Autopilot is used all the time during takeoff and landing.
One other failsafe possibility. Install a safety mechanism to handover control of air traffic from one tower to another in case of attack. For those of you who never saw "pushing tin" or any documentaries on air traffic control, skilled terrorists could probably do 10x the damage they did today if they had targeted the towers at laguardia, newark, and JFK all at once, and directed the aircraft to fly into eachother.
But i'm sure you've all seen Die Hard 2...
non-standard perspectives (Score:1, Interesting)
tragedy (Score:2, Interesting)
sorry (Score:2, Interesting)
But, Katz... this was really not appropriate today.
You made yourself a part of this story. This story is not about you. Hell, it's not really about technology. This is about thousands of people that died because some idiot wanted to make a point.
It's really sad you had to post a grandstanding article on such a terrible day.
Re:Careful about targeting one source... (Score:3, Interesting)
Everybody is shocked at the moment, anger has not kicked in yet. When the smoke clears and the mangled bodies of civilians and fireman are pulled from the rubble the muslim world will be in a world of hurt.
These terrorists have upped the stakes and have forced the world's most powerful military power into a corner. Over 10,000 Americans are DEAD. When 10,000 people die, pleas for compassion go unheard.
America's revenge and reprisals will be swift, violent and devastating. May god have mercy on whoever is behind this, because we won't.
RE: What Repercussions? (Score:2, Interesting)
There is a world of difference between retaliation and justice. I have little doubt that retaliation and additional loss of life will occur, but have reservations as to whether or not justice will truly be served in the process. This saddens me greatly.
With regard to the consequences of these attacks, I offer the following for consideration. Loss of innocence is the most striking casualty, regardless of the actual, final body count. The realization that horrifying events such as those witnessed today can happen here, on U.S. soil, is now a part of our national consciousness. The technology we rely upon on a daily basis for benign purposes has been successfully reinvented as devastating weaponry. How we deal with this loss of innocence, however, is what I believe to be of the greatest importance. The psychological ramifications of today's events will likely be years in the making; our cultural landscape will be undeniably altered.
I am a resident of Seattle. A little less than two years ago, residents of this city experienced the declaration of martial law in response to the WTO riots. While I am uncertain as to how we will respond to the terrorist acts experienced today, I have little doubt that the civil rights of our nation's average citizeny will be impacted. I hope that the decisions that are made for the purpose of ostensibly protecting our country are sensible ones; I fear, however, that instead we will lose something precious in the balance, that the freedoms we have long celebrated will be inexorably altered. In the wake of today's events, this is what I fear the most.
Re:rebuilding the towers... (Score:3, Interesting)