LordBodak's Journal: [Guns] Stoeger Cougar 8000

This already came up in Le Marteau's journal, but here it is. After an excellent writeup in this month's Guns & Ammo, I picked up a Stoeger Cougar 8000 in .40S&W. The Cougar was made by Beretta in the past, but Beretta recently shipped the tooling to Turkey for Stoeger to start building them (Stoeger is owned by Beretta). So what was once a $650 or so Beretta is now a $300-$350 Stoeger. Couldn't pass that up. Pictures are here.

Haven't had a chance to clean or shoot it yet, since I was out of town all weekend after picking up the gun Thursday night.

How is supporting outsourcing

[Marxist Hacker 42]

American? Just noting the flag in your journal and the incongruancy of supporting Beretta's rather unpatriotic outsourcing of their manufacturing (though, isn't Beretta an Italian company to begin with?). Seems to me you'd want to go American instead of with the Cheap Price/Cheap Labor Free Traitors.

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[LordBodak]

Slashdot doesn't offer a gun topic (although as a gross generalization, lots of geeks like guns so they probably should!), so I use the US for all my gun-related JEs as I consider any exercise of my second amendment rights to be patriotic.

To answer the other question; yes, Beretta is Italian. They have a US corporation (all foreign guns have to be imported to a US company), as well as a US manufacturing facility, but they never built Cougars here. The main reason for the US manufacturing facility is to

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[Marxist Hacker 42]

There are actually surprisingly few American pistols. Ruger, Smith & Wesson, and Colt are about it.

I actually don't find that very surprising. Outside of the so-called "gun culture", criminals, and police work; we're a pretty peaceful society in comparison to some others around the world. A bolt-action rifle is much more useful in most livestock protection incidents (whether against human rustlers or predatory species) than a pistol- and much more acurate at a distance also. The main use of a pisto

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[Le Marteau]

I don't know about Bodak and his Stoeger, but I can say why I bought a german gun the other week. It's because it was the highest quality available for the functionality I wanted and for the funds I had to spend.

That's how any American _I_ would want to assoctiate with trades. I want nothing to do with any philosophy which would have a consumer purposly choose an inferior product when higher quality products are available.

Now, all things being equal, I'd choose American. But when the foreign options are

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[Marxist Hacker 42]

I don't know about Bodak and his Stoeger, but I can say why I bought a german gun the other week. It's because it was the highest quality available for the functionality I wanted and for the funds I had to spend.

I'm only half joking- I do realize that in MANY industries that the lower standard of living in countries like Germany allow manufacturers to produce superior quality for a cheaper price.

That's how any American _I_ would want to assoctiate with trades. I want nothing to do with any philosophy wh

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[Le Marteau]

Which just guarantees that the American companies will never make a superior product- because they can't compete and will go out of business instead. As Bodak said, there are really only three companies left in America that make pistols at all. If you don't support your neighbor, you run the risk of having to depend on foreign suppliers entirely.

Oh, I support my neighbors, alright. I have four Smith & Wesson revolvers, a Ruger target pistol, a North American Arms .380, a North American Arms mini .22, a

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[Marxist Hacker 42]

Seems to me the Americans are still making fine weaponry.

Yes, but for how long? Price is king in retail- and now that we're sending a majority of our scrap and iron ore to China for processing, metals are going to get more expensive here as well.

American manufacturing is at a huge disadvantage- this thread started more due to the icon used. I'm not really that opposed to the philosophy of best quality at best price- but at the same time I'm seriously concerned that the day is fast approaching that we'l

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[LordBodak]

Like Le Marteau, I have my share of American firearms as well. My .22 pistol & rifle are both Rugers, as is my .357 revolver. I also have a Smith & Wesson revolver, a Marlin lever action, and a Remington shotgun.

Some things the Americans get right-- lever actions, revolvers, and pump shotguns especially. When it comes to centerfire semi-auto pistols, we've never been competitive, except with the 1911 (but note that Mr. Browning's successor to the 1911, the BHP, isn't even built by any American

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[Marxist Hacker 42]

And the sad part is, we probably never will. American manufacturing in general is past prime. It will take a depression, and yet another New Deal, to set it right.

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[LordBodak]

That may be true, but part of it may just be that the mindset is different. Companies in the US definitely have trouble dealing with changes in the market (look at how long it takes the American car companies to catch up to a trend).

But in firearms, there's still a demand for everything. People want revolvers, lever action rifles, bolt action rifles, semi-autos, shotguns of every kind, etc. Some of these are purely American and some are traditional European. Nobody outside of the US (except perhaps T

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[Short Circuit]

ANYBODY can do high quality cheaper than we can when they have socialized health care and we don't.

That's not a good argument...The cost to produce a country's GDP isn't going to go down just because doctors are handed checks by the government. Even if a country has socialized health care, somebody has to pay for it through taxes, be it by companies or individuals.

If one stipulates that good public health is required to maintain production levels, then one must assume that the cost of health care is somehow factored into the cost of a product.

Apologies in advance...

[Short Circuit]

...for having a political discussion in LB's journal.

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[LordBodak]

Hey, I've been MIA for months, pretty much any discussion in my journal is welcome at this point!

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[Marxist Hacker 42]

That's not a good argument...The cost to produce a country's GDP isn't going to go down just because doctors are handed checks by the government.

Whenever you can reduce a cost in the supply chain, the cost to produce will go down. Worldwide, socialism actually beats capitalism on cost for products that have a captive consumer- where the choice is buy or die.

Even if a country has socialized health care, somebody has to pay for it through taxes, be it by companies or individuals.

True, but by cutting ou

Interesting

[BWJones]

Hrmmmm. I know nothing of the Stoeger, but its nice to see the H&K in your collection. I've a USPc, a USPf and a Mk23 myself and am quite happy with them. After having spent some time with a Sig P220R though, I am thinking of picking one up as it has a nicer trigger than any of my H&Ks save the Mk23. The Sigs drawback is really capacity, but for most purposes, that is academic (for my purposes) as it also provides a handier grip due to the narrower frame. Now, if I were to find myself deployed

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[LordBodak]

I looked at the Sig P220 before I bought my .45 (a 1911), and I considered it, but it wasn't "lefty-friendly" enough for me. Unfortunately that's true of most Sigs (although a Sig with the DAK trigger might be a purchase for me someday).

Ooh, I like.

[JesseL]

I was always intrigued by the rotating barrel locking on those. Let us know how accurate it is for you. At that price, I might look into one to replace the Daewoo DH40 that's been my carry piece for 4 years now (been looking really close at the XDs for a while).

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[LordBodak]

Definitely a gorgeous gun to me. If you're intrigued by the design, the Beretta PX-4 is similar. It's polymer-framed and higher capacity than the Cougar, but they seem to be popular. I think the PX-4 and the new polymer-framed 92 clone, the "90-Two" are ugly as sin.

Although if you think about it, it's kinda funny how we can look at these destructive little machines and judge them based on aesthetics. If you walk into the hardware store and see two similar hammers, are you going to choose the more "at

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[JesseL]

Honestly, if someone came up with a particularly elegant hammer design I would probably ooh and ah over that too.

It's interesting how Beretta seems to swing so dramatically between gorgeous and butt-ugly.

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[LordBodak]

It's interesting how Beretta seems to swing so dramatically between gorgeous and butt-ugly.

That's for sure. The 92/96 series is gorgeous. I hate it b/c it's a 9mm being issued to our soldiers when they should still have .45s, but aesthetically it still is gorgeous today. Hard to believe the company that built that and the Cougar could build the new polymer-framed ugly things they put out today.

Although it seems like nobody has figured out how to make a truly attractive polymer gun yet. Sigs are pro

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[StalinsNotDead]

If you walk into the hardware store and see two similar hammers, are you going to choose the more "attractive" one?

I've done that for an axe. I picked up the first one then continued down the isle. Then another nicer looking axe caught my eye. Sure it was a little more expensive but it looked neater, so I put the first one back and bought the fancier looking axe.