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Quake First Person Shooters (Games)

Dave 'Zoid' Kirsch Leaving id Software 159

Posted by Hemos from the depature-of-good-people dept.
Digital_Fiend writes, "Dave 'Zoid' Kirsch (creator of Capture the Flag, among other things) made a plan update saying he's leaving id. Zoid will be working at Retro Studios to make games for Nintendo's Dolphin. We'll miss you, Dave. "
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Dave 'Zoid' Kirsch Leaving id Software More

Dave 'Zoid' Kirsch Leaving id Software

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  • I suppose all of the code he wrote at id has to stay at id?
  • I think that's pretty smart move bucause it seems to me that Retro is going to be recognized as most respected game developer out there.
    good luck dolphin
  • As good a time as he's had working at Id, I'm sure experiences working on Dolphin games will be just as rewarding. It's a really solid system that provides alot of flexibility and should put out some nice games. Does anyone know anything about the company he moved to?
  • Damn, those kids have money! Check out their Parking Lot [retrostudios.com]... A Ferrari, a Corvette (I think), and an Acura NSX. *drool*.

  • How did this happen? (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 26, 2000 @06:37AM (#1244558)
    Retro Studios: Dave, how would you like to come and work with us?

    Dave: I don't know, I kind of like reinventing the same game over and over, year after year. I really have a great rythm going.

    Retro Studios: You get to work with top of the line technology, stuff you PC boys only dream of!

    Dave: Hmm, I really don't....

    Retro Studios: All the donuts you can eat!

    Dave: WOOHOO!
  • I agree. I know John Carmack doesn't have to deal with as much of this (for example he didn't work on Quake 2 at all). He mainly works on the next engine. Id as been lacking alot of originality. (I know this is off topic, but does anyone know what happened to the PREY project from 3d realms after half their teem quit to work for Id? E-mail responses so I don't loose too much Karma)
  • Can't help but wonder if he will still develop Q3 CTF. It has been theorized that his work on Q3 CTF has been curtailed due to the wishes of folks at Id. It will be interesting to see if a ThreeWave CTF is released in the coming months. I know there are plenty of peeps in the community hoping he brings the "magic" back. (or at least the hook ;) )

    I hope this doesn't effect Linux support... as that would truly be tragic.

    But enough selfishness ... GL Zoid

  • News for nerds? Actually, yes. Who else but nerds would really care what happens to this guy, other than his family and friends? :)

  • Not just CTF.. (Score:5)

    by AndmaN ( 96849 ) on Saturday February 26, 2000 @06:52AM (#1244565) Homepage
    ..he was also the guy behind the Q1/Q2 Linux ports.
  • His website is kind of "under construction" :)
    threewave.com [threewave.com]

  • Carmack - Make him come back! (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 26, 2000 @06:59AM (#1244568)
    A t t [farmsex.com] e n t [farmsex.com] i o n [farmsex.com] J o [farmsex.com] h n [farmsex.com] C a r [farmsex.com] m a c [farmsex.com] k . [farmsex.com] T h i [farmsex.com] s i [farmsex.com] s a [farmsex.com] r a [farmsex.com] n s o [farmsex.com] m n [farmsex.com] o t e [farmsex.com] . I [farmsex.com] f y [farmsex.com] o u [farmsex.com] d o [farmsex.com] n o t [farmsex.com] r e [farmsex.com] t u r [farmsex.com] n Z [farmsex.com] o i d [farmsex.com] t o [farmsex.com] i d [farmsex.com] , I [farmsex.com] w i [farmsex.com] l l [farmsex.com] b e [farmsex.com] f o r [farmsex.com] c e d [farmsex.com] t o [farmsex.com] p o [farmsex.com] u r [farmsex.com] h o t [farmsex.com] g r [farmsex.com] i t s [farmsex.com] d o [farmsex.com] w n [farmsex.com] m y [farmsex.com] p a n [farmsex.com] t s . [farmsex.com] T h [farmsex.com] a n k [farmsex.com] y o [farmsex.com] u .
  • When I fingered him (`finger zoid@idsoftware.com'), I found he has HTML tags in his finger info (technically his project, not his plan)- making it kind of odd to read. I've never seen that before - any idea why he would do that? It seems that a web address would be more appropriate.

    Also, his title description is `Ports' - was he behind the Linux ports perhaps?

    -ac
  • I just wanted to take a moment and thank Dave for all his hard work and for what he contributed to on-line gaming. His work is truly fantastic, and I've played the hell out of his maps, and wish him well in the future.

    Quake CTF . . it's not just a game, it's a lifestyle.
    _________________________

  • What is there left to develop?? Or is this a completely different piece of software? Or a mod or something?
  • ...unfortunately. Ever hit ^C in the SVGALib Quake or Quake 2 and find that the game exitted without resetting the console? I sent the fix for that to Zoid a couple of times but it never seemed to get his attention. Granted, it was a big piece of stupidity in the svgalib code, but it would have been nice for him to take the 2 minutes to fix it, even if it didn't bother him.
  • His website is kind of "under construction" :)
    threewave.com [threewave.com]

    Yeah, but at least ``It Worked!''

    Good catch.

    -ac
  • Q: Why does Nintendo need help? A: It doesn't. Q: Why would PS2 (refering to the console not the PC) beat out Dolphin? A: It won't. The Dolphin has a far superior graphics card, a slightly faster CPU, and costs $125. The PS2 costs what, $400? Something like that? Sure, maybe it can play DVD's, but alot of people can't afford it. Alot of parents buying christmas present aren't going to opt for 3x the cost. Also, as always, Nintendo games have been by far more in depth, detailed, original, and interesting. I mean, really, how many identical poorly done RPG/Fighting games can you play on a playstation. Disclaimer: My generalizations may be a little black and white, but I don't actually think that's the case at all. There were enough street fighter variations on NES and SNES that it hurt. Also, on playstation there have been FF VII and FF VIII as well as a few other fun games like Cardinal Syn.
  • I'm not sure about the inner mechanics of the Id software social structure, but pinning the grappling hook thing on one guy sounds a bit rediculous. Even if he DID invent the thing and promote it throughout his career there, it's not like everyone else sat around and said "Yep, whatever you want Zoid. Sure, what the hell. Grappling hooks sound swell Zoid." The rest of the company did approve the stuff I'm sure.

  • LOL (Score:2)

    by Frac ( 27516 )
    +5 for creativity. It does look like a ransom note ;)
  • Where did you get that the Dolphin was $125, I'm not calling you a liar I just want to know. Also, Nintendo lost many customers due to the lack of quality games for the 64. I own both systems, the PSX and the N64 and the PSX has the better, innovative titles. Games like Driver and Metal Gear Solid. Sony also has all the best developers. Nintendo only has itself and possible Rare. I don't think price will matter.
  • It will need mucho help because of all of the lame-ass Mario ports that will be released for the Dolphin. Not to mention that Nintendo will want to keep their high-dollar licensing scheme and the games will cost $70. Plus, I seriously doubt Nintendo's hardware is better. And, the PS2 is being released for approximately $350 in Japan -- so It'll probably be $299 in the US. Just within my limits for purchasing one. Oh yeah, and these two games: Gran Turismo 2000 & Ridge Racer 5.
  • ".. and you know what happens when you make an assumption. You make an ass out of you .. and umption."

    Threewave CTF's home page isn't http://threewave.com/. It's http://www.captured.com/threewave/ [captured.com] and it hasn't been updated since he went to work for id (if I'm not mistaken).

    As always, this comes with the disclaimer that I may be wrong.
  • Uh.. what a choice of link.. hope there are no animal rights activists reading this.. is that stuff legal even?
  • I can't imagine that you could possibly consider Mario 64 either "lame-ass" or a port. If you do you obviously have radically different taste than I do. I think PS's main problem is that they take themselves way too seriously. The games (excepting a few) have no sense of humor.
  • My assumption was based on his email address :

    zoid@threewave.com

    So I think threewave.com IS related to him.

    In light of the domain name registrant info [networksolutions.com], I'm pretty sure it is related to him :)

  • I know this sounds kind of flimsy, but I don't know where I heard that number. It was one of the Major collector sites for information about the unreleased Dolphin. The reason that it will cost so much less (or so I guess) is because it doesn't need whatever hardware is necessary to play DVDs. Why it can't be implemented in software I'm not sure.
  • true. most companies own the code you make. which means the owners john carmakc, adrian carmakc[no relation] and kevin cloud own his code. good things too, his id code includes quakeworld, linux q1 and q2, and code used in maintaining ids works.
  • because he creates the linux version of THE nerd game. there you are. simple as that.
  • The hardware is going to be better. The Dolphin will be running on a 400mhz 128 bit RISK chip, the PS2 a simmilar 350mhz design. Both have very impressive memory bus bandwith. However, the hardware for the Dolphin supports the mapping of extremely high resolution textures. It's actually really impressive if you've seen the screen shots comparing it to a voodoo 3. It blows the voodoo away. I must admit though, I'm not sure how effective this is going to be when we are still dealing with TVs that might be scanning 480 rows if you're lucky. Definitely on an HDTV it should really show up. I don't think the majority of us are well off enough to own one though, I'm certainly not.
  • Most people get finger info through a Web-based interface like this [bluesnews.com] instead of through a command-line utility (since there isn't one in Win9x-- thanks Bill! :P)
  • It's a really solid system that provides alot of flexibility...

    It is? I thought it was an enormous cloud of vapor :)
    Seriously, I've heard very little solid info on Dolphin, and no hard specs whatsoever. Do you know something I don't? *curious*

  • I'm not sure if I misunderstood your post, but FYI, Threewave for Q3A was released months ago [3dshack.com].

    Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".
  • (heh, "Dolphin Developer". kinda rolls off the toungue).

    We the people demand new-fangled versions of the following Nintendo classics upon the release of the new Dolphin console. Failure to help deliver on these demands will result in an unspeakable loss of personal karma:

    - Metroid
    - Kid Icarus
    - Balloon Fight
    - Clu Clu Land

    and, for the love of gawd, we DEMAND a Dolphin version of

    - Donkey Kong Jr. Math

  • Nope, I'm afraid not. The moment that Zoid leaves id at the end of this month, Capture the Flag and the Linux ports of Quake revert to him. If you're a windows user like me, you'll just have to delete all instances of CTF in the game directory, but poor linuxs users are going to be Quakeless. Dan
  • Not to mention Mario Teaches Typing!
    -Ravagin
    "Ladies and gentlemen, this is NPR! And that means....it's time for a drum solo!"

  • Zoid's CTF made Quake worthwhile (Score:3)

    by Darlington ( 28762 ) on Saturday February 26, 2000 @09:15AM (#1244611)

    Zoid was the best thing that ever happened to Quake. I remember downloading Quake 1 for the first time, playing a bit, and thinking, "Hey, what a cool 3D engine. Somebody should make a game out of it." Zoid did.

    Zoid's Quake 1 CTF took a horrible mess of a game and turned it into an amazing, addictive team event that kept the program on my machine longer than anything else before it. I always thought that the grappling hook was kinda stupid, particularly when you could latch onto someone with it and drain their health down to nothing, but it didn't prevent Q1 CTF from being extremely fun.

    Then Quake 2 CTF came along and looked beautiful, but didn't play quite as well. The wide-open spaces allowed low-ping grapplers to fly around ceilings like tarzan and team assaults were replaced by the single LPB monkey-swinging around and running away at high speed. But again, the useful life of the game was extended tenfold by the CTF mod -- without it, Q2 was maps full of brain-dead monsters or mindless deathmatch.

    Now we have Quake 3 CTF. The grapple is thankfully history, but the magic is almost gone. I usually find myself playing Unreal Tournament's CTF instead -- let me shoot cool weapons at other soldiers in gritty settings instead of plugging away at big mechanical eyeballs in shiny, brightly-coloured funhouses.

    Maybe Quake 3 Arena is too much of a goofy cartoon for even Zoid to save, or maybe he's run out of steam at last. Whatever the case:

    • Zoid's work made every version of Quake more fun, and we should give him props.
    • Judging by Q3A CTF, I'd say it is certainly time to move on.

  • Speaking of Dolphin... (Score:3)

    by nd ( 20186 ) <nacase AT gmail DOT com> on Saturday February 26, 2000 @09:21AM (#1244612) Homepage
    Nintendo recently shot themselves in the foot. According to IGN64 [ign64.com], Nintendo finally admitted that Dolphin wasn't on schedule, and will be delayed from Fall '2000 to Q3/2001!

    This really sucks, because Dolphin would have had the ability to really compete with PS2 (better hardware, better 1st/2nd party developers, lower cost), but now PS2 will truly reign with no competition for over a whole year. Now I know I will definitely be getting a PS2. Nintendo is going to really need something up their sleeves now, and I say this as a long-time Nintendo supporter.

  • not adding the grapple (into stock Q3CTF) has ruined the game for me and many others. I know of MANY people from the Q1CTF fame that refuse to play Q3 b/c of this. I don't think poorly of him, but what he did was severely hurt the Q3CTF community by a personal choice forced on 4 years of CTF.
  • I thought the AC's "ransomized" post was pretty funny as well, so since I was bored I whacked up a little php script to ransomize the output of fortune. Here it is ...
    <?
    $site = "http://www.slashdot.org/";
    $text = array();

    exec("/usr/games/fortune", $text);

    $message = "";
    $size = count($text);

    for($i = 0; $i < $size; $i ++)
    {
    if($i > 0)
    $message .= "\n";

    $message .= $text[$i];
    }

    $length = strlen($message);

    function doBold($theChar, $clientData)
    {
    print("<B>$theChar</B>");
    }

    function doItalic($theChar, $clientData)
    {
    print("<I>$theChar</I>");
    }

    function doLink($theChar, $clientData)
    {
    print("<A HREF=\"$clientData\">$theChar</A>");
    }

    $list = array(doBold, doItalic, doLink);
    $nFunctions = count($list);
    $lastIndex = -1;

    srand((double)microtime() * 1000000);

    for($i = 0; $i < $length; $i ++)
    {
    $theChar = substr($message, $i, 1);

    if(($theChar >= 'a' && $theChar <= 'z') ||
    ($theChar >= 'A' && $theChar <= 'Z') ||
    ($theChar >= '0' && $theChar <= '9'))
    {
    do
    {
    $index = rand() % $nFunctions;

    } while($index == $lastIndex);

    $list[$index]($theChar, $site);
    $lastIndex = $index;
    }
    else
    {
    if($theChar == "\n")
    print("<BR>");

    else
    print($theChar);
    }
    }
    ?>

  • run! (Score:2)

    by Hobbex ( 41473 )

    Among other things, Zoid did a lot of the porting and developement of Quake on Linux and the other Unix platforms. I guess they will need to find a Linux programmer to take his job now...

    Is that the sound of a thousand Slashdot readers printing their CVs I hear?

    -
    We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
  • that was a map pack... which was essential, seeing as the game only shipped with 4 CTF maps. But there was nothing added that wasn't in the box.

    There was no hook, or runes (as they were known in previous versions). A number of the "old-school" ctf players view the current out-of-the-box CTF as crippled. Personally, I find it to be playable, though a hook would be a nice option.

    I was hoping for further developement, as we saw in previous versions.

  • Mario is a classic, but it got old after the third or forth version, just like SF and Mortal Kombat. I'll have to agree with the person you replied to WRT Mario Bros...
  • "plan" is the plan subsection of the user info you get when you call finger on a user. It's mainly a UNIX thing, I think.
  • I hate the way they exploit the ignorance of parents, with cheap consoles and massively overpriced games, and advertising targeted at young kids. It's scuzzy, and they deserve to go down.
  • In Glqwcl, ever tried using the numeric keypad in linux? / * - and enter were all bound to the same keycode (space). The non-gl version worked fine, so it was probably a simple change.

    I had to work around this (since I use the keypad for fps games) by remapping the keyboard in svgalib's keymaps -- I mapped / to the regular / on the keyboard, * to the regular *, etc.... If you read rec.games.computer.quake.misc, I think there's an old post in there where I described how to do this (ah, here it is [deja.com] ), although it is probably fixed now in all the open source project versions of glqwcl.

    --
  • It does look like a ransom note, but don't let any kids click the link!

    --
  • I can't begin to say how pumped I am for what this means to the networking of console gaming systems. I mean yes, they're saying "Dolphin/PSX2 will have DSL/Cable/Eth capabilities," but I didn't expect much from them.

    Zoid, however, is the key to this. Yes, CTF was cool, yes, his mods are cool, but the coolest thing Zoid has done for all of us was QuakeWorld. Quake 1 was pretty cool, and i was amazed at it, but the internet play wasn't there. You couldn't play very good games on a modem, and the promise of netplay faltered for most of us.

    But then..... Oh, then.... Zoid made QuakeWorld, and the world changed for me and millions of others like me. Fast networking code, a reasonable level of playability on a modem...

    Thanks Zoid, and keep kicking ass. Let's see some sweet-ass multiplayer on the Dolphin. Someday I wanna sit on my couch in front of the TV and kick esses' ass instead of having to sit at my desk. :]
  • I have fond memories of playing CTF in Quake 1---particularily the Expert CTF modification with the offhand grapple and the Thunderwalker version with the cartoon sounds---although Threewave was always good to play. Somehow CTF II always lacked the fun of Threewave CTF and friends.

    Some of the levels in Threewave CTF were modifications of normal quake 1 levels .. I had many an excellent game in Gloom Castles (the two castle version of Gloom Keep, which is a quake 1 single player map). I remember madly firing the rocket at attackers in this map while our flag carrier swung around the room wildly desperately trying to avoid fire...and pursuing people through the air praying for a midair shot--this all changed in Quake2 where the attackers would just whip out the railgun and knock him out of the sky. There were other good maps, like McKinley Station, the Warzone, and a few others (like one with 3 windtunnels in each base) that have been so long that I can't remember. In mid-98 I got into Team Fortress, and people were leaving Quake1 CTF anyways, so I haven't really played it much since.

    Quake3 CTF is probably more true to what CTF probably should be than Quake2 CTF. There shouldn't be a grappling hook in the first place -- Threewave CTF used it because the maps were taken at first from single player, and not suited otherwise for CTF play.

    However, I find myself playing Unreal Tournament CTF. After looking at the UT and Q3A demos, I decided to buy UT -- with the extra maps and gameplay modes, there's no way UT is worth $10 less than Q3A, and so IMHO Q3A is way overpriced .. people use the excuse that id is just a "game engine" company and that "mod makers will make the game better" -- if this is the case why should I pay $70 (CDN) for the game? I don't like this possibly perceived freeloading off of mod makers in order to get a game out the door faster...quite frankly, I believe that Q3A should have been delayed 6 months while some better gameplay modes were added and more maps were made, or if that was not possible, more people should have been hired before to give more polish and features to the game (besides gameplay modes, an easier to use server browser and stats support like UT has built in [ngworldstats.com]). id is a fairly small shop compared to Epic (Epic has around 25 people), and it really showed in a comparison of their latest games.


    --
  • Here's my $0.02 - take it or leave it.

    I was an avid player if Quake1/QuakeWorld, and not CTF. After the core of id moved on to Quake2, Zoid maintained these projects. I can't say that I fully respect him for it.

    Between minor version increments of QW, he'd implement wholesale changes in the physics of the game. This may not affect players of CTF who can grapple like there's no gravity. But, for players of mods where physics had a greater impact on the gameplay, this was gamerape and pure frustration.

    Moreover, I cannot compliment him on his grasp of coding or mathematics. After he took over, in QW I encountered frustrating player clipping problems. While running backward along a gradually curved wall, the player could become stuck, leading to imminent death. This (the sticking, not the death :P) did not exist before Zoid took over the project. In CTF, this situation may not occur, but it sure does in other mods including plainold FFA and Teamplay.

    Overall, my impression is that Zoid developed CTF. He was a CTF player that coded for CTF. He had no vision beyond this. He had no grasp of the implications or repercussions of whimsical changes in the game or gameplay. Regardless, id tried to cast him into a greater role, and IMHO he did not rise to the challenge.

    I am only one voice, but I'm not sorry to see him go.

    - Drij [BW] [IM] [GXD]
  • the main reason their games were massively overpriced (compared to, say, playstation) was based on chioce of using faster "carts" that were rom based vs playstations much cheaper cd's.
    This accounts for about an extra $10 in the productin costs, paid for by the purchaser, of course...
  • Don't hit ^C.
  • Let the kids decide for themselves!
  • > But then..... Oh, then.... Zoid made QuakeWorld

    By no means did Zoid make QuakeWorld. You can thank John Carmack for that -- for your "Fast networking code, a reasonable level of playability on a modem...". You can look through an archive of JC's .plan updates from th era to see his comments while developing the network and game protocol for QuakeWorld.

    Zoid merely maintained QuakeWorld after the core developers moved on.
  • The grappling hook was not invented by Zoid nor has Zoid ever claimed this. I was actually in irc #quake (undernet I think) the evening when the original creator came in and said something like "hey guys come and check out my grappling hook mod". Zoid later on took the idea and integrated it into his CTF mod which was already cool with the powerup runes. There was a substantial period of time between all this happening and Zoid being offered contract work at id.

    I don't think id will be too hurting without Zoid there. His contract is coming to an end, maybe they weren't going to renew it anyways? With John Carmack doing things like writing an X windows port for Mac OS X [stepwise.com] and doing a lot of work on the Utah-GLX project [sourceforge.net] I'm sure he can handle doing the concurrent Linux/Mac development himself easily enough that Zoid was responsible for. I don't know Robert Duffy very well but he seems to be doing a good job for id so far, he could possibly also take over this responsibility.

    I've met Zoid before and he was a great guy, I hope him the best of luck.

    -idealego

  • Nobody from the Prey project went to work at id. Licensed id's engine yes.
    <p>
    Carmack did indeed work on the Quake 2 engine. He ripped out the software rending, Adding colored lighting, allowed for bigger/more complex levels, screwed up model animations by making them all 10hz, screwed up the networking code (over quakeworld) and did a bunch of other stuff. I mean the screwed up stuff kinda sarcastically, John is an awesome programmer but we all make mistakes sometimes...
    <p>
    -idealego
  • ...that Nintendo would actually release a system when they say they will? For any Nintendo hardware "release", add at least a year onto their promise and you'll have the date... if you're lucky.
  • I agree with you.
    Zoid was never really a hard core gamer so he didn't understand what the hardcore community wanted out of Quake deathmatch. I was also a victim of this at the time. This was probably why his involvement in that specific area of id's developemnt ended with Q1.

    -idealego

  • Nintedo purposefully delayed the release of the Game Boy Advance. It seems they are perfectly content with creating a few more Pokemon games for the Game Boy Color and N64, have those sell millions of copies, and THEN move on to the Dolphin, etc.

    The Pokemon craze has, in the short term, is more than enough to keep the company going, even on 'outdated' hardware. This might be a good thing. Perhaps rumors of a PS2 killer are true, even though we'll get it a year later (like the PS2 compared to Dreamcast).

  • CTF for Quake 1 was Zoid's greatest work and it has gone down-hill from there but I don't blame Zoid for that as ThreeWave CTF was not an easy thing to create a sequel for. What do people think in regards to Zoid's choice? Was it the right one? I would guess that he was becoming bored with his current projects and wanted to work on something new but was it the right one?
  • id has always had a fair amount of turnover. Folks come there, cut their teeth working with Carmack, and then move on to other positions in the industry. It's not just this year.

    Funny your comment about not liking Carmack after reading interviews. For me, everytime I read an interview or one of his .plans, I usually respect him more.

  • Already emailed him directly, but I just wanted to publicly thank Zoid for all his good work with CTF. Threewave CTF on Quake 1 was the game that made me a Quake addict. I had never experienced so much adreleline pumping excitement as I did playing CTF in those days.

    I'm sorry to see Zoid moving on, but we all need new challenges in life. The CTF concept is mature enough to survive on it's own now.

    Thanks again Zoid! You rock!
  • I've never understood how people can be such rabid devotees of particular consoles. It's even more amazing that someone can read a few sparse press releases and become a disciple of a console that he's never seen, doesn't really know anything about, and that isn't supposed to be available for 18 months. Bizarre.
  • Linux Quake is far from dead:

    <A HPEF="http://www.quakeforge.net/">http://www.quake forge.net/</A>
    --------
    "I already have all the latest software."
  • * Zoid was blown to pieces by id's rocket launcher

    * Zoid has left id
    * Zoid has joined Nintendo
    * Nintendo was blown to pieces from Sony's PS2 Rocket Launcher

    ok, that was bad, i know :D
  • Dave's moving to Retro because he feels that's the direction he needs to go, to stay on top of things in the industry. He did all that was humanly possibly for id, and anyone who doubts his abilities is obviously without a clue. id chose not to include his maps in the q3 release, and he was disappointed. He wanted a greater role in the production of q3, but was satisfied in doing his best in the role he had. His decision is his to make, and everyone's presumptions mean little to him or those around him. He knows what he's doing, and no one can dispute what he's done for gaming. Judging by all the CTF clones out there, I'd say he started quite the revolution in multiplayer networking. Give him the respect he deserves. For those of us who DO know him, we support him completely, and know he's doing the right thing. TikTok
  • Here's my $0.02 - take it or leave it.

    Ok, I'll leave it.

    Zoid improved quakeworld in many ways (network code, spectator modes, anti-cheat code) which helped the community in many ways. All of these things were asked for by the community and received.

    IMHO id software never gave Zoid the opportunity to fully utilize his talents, and never gave him the due credit for his contributions. If you fire up quake3arena you won't find Zoid's name anywhere on the credits when you exit the game. But you'll see their secretary's name there. hmmmm....

    I appreciate Zoid's vast contributions to the quake scene, and wish him well at his new job. Its too bad that he broke your quake mod along the way. He did give the qw community the improved multiplayer experience it was asking for.

  • I take exception to your point that "he broke my mod along the way". I am not referring to any mods, but that Zoid's "improvements" in the gameplay were done without consideration for anything except Capture the Flag. In mucking with the physics and clipping, he changed and changed again a major component of the gameplay in FFA (free-for-all), teamplay, and 1-on-1. These are not mods, but basic deathmatch, the cornerstones of Quake.

    I have no problem with adding things like spectator modes and anti-cheat code.

    But things like network code, physics, and player clipping are a significant part of the essence of the game. A good player learns how to optimally interact with them. Changing these things from releases changes the game, and should be performed with care. Zoid exhibited no such restraint -- he flippantly made changes that went against original gameplay design decisions.

    If I want to feel like I'm playing a different game, I'll play a different game. Various releases of QW should have zero difference in their basic gameplay. They differed.
  • I have met Zoid and I used to see him online all the time. Zoid was an awesome guy so don't misunderstand my previous post.

    Most peole don't understand what a hardcore gamer really is. Zoid used to play ctf quite a bit but that doesn't make him a hardcore gamer. Hardcore gamers are the type of guys like Thresh etc. who id invites to their offices before a game comes out to get feedback on it. Zoid just doesn't fall into this category. I know because I used to be a hardcore gamer, 4 hours a day of Quake deathmatch was about my average and I was in a few of the top clans at the time (Quake 1).

    If you're not hardcore then you're like an outsider looking in thinking you understand the way things are but not realizing how little you really know.

    Note that when I say hardcore gamer I specifically mean "hardcore quake player"

    -idealego

  • All I see and hear are people raggin on "normal" death match. Maybe I haven't played quake[I,II,III] to the point of eye-bleeding hypnosis, but I still have fun playing straight or team DM. Am I the only one? Well, from the full servers I see every time I play, no. I'm no newbie, but I'm no thresh either, and every time I play, I have loads of fun, as I'm sure countless others do.

    CTF and the other mods are fun too, but different types of fun. I doubt all of the millions of copies of Q1 sales were directly due to CTF. Saying that quake1 was "not a game until CTF came along" or "mindless DM" is insulting not only to me, but all the other "normal" DM'ers.

    The Q3/UT comparison is another thread altogether...

  • The credits say "id software is"
    Zoid was on contract to do concurrent development of Quake 3 on Linux & Mac. He also did whatever was needed to support CTF which probably wasn't much since the id guys did all the media for it. So Zoid isn't technically part of id since he's on contract but I'm surprised they didn't throw his name in at the bottom or something...

    I was one of the people who liked the original quake networking code better so I can't really agree with you there but quakeworld wasn't a sole creation of Zoid's, another guy (forget name) was doing it also and Carmack probably had a big influence.

    Spectator modes and anything else he added were commonly used in mods way before he implemented them so all he had to do was yank other peoples code and play with it a bit.

    I don't mean to belittle his substantial contributions to Quake, just adding my thoughts to your post.

    -idealego

  • specs (Score:3)

    by / ( 33804 ) on Saturday February 26, 2000 @04:06PM (#1244668)
    Some Nintendo suits gave a conference [ign.com] back in May where they announced some specs.

    Some more specs can be found here [the-nextlevel.com]. The gist is:
    CPU: IBM Gekko Processor (an extension of the IBM

    Power PC architecture)
    System Clock: 400 MHz
    System Memory: High-speed DRAM technology
    Memory Bus Bandwidth: 3.2 GB/second
    Semiconductor Process 0.18 Micron Copper Technology

    Graphics: Custom Chip designed by ArtX, Inc. of Palo Alto, CA
    Clock Speed: 200MHz
    Semiconductor Processor 0.18 Micron embedded
    DRAM technology
    Maximum Polygon Rate: N/A

    Software Medium: Proprietary DVD
    Enhanced counterfeit protection
    Maximum capacity: 4.7 GB

    Needless to say, no boxes have been unveiled so it's all still vapor in that sense.

  • Re:What the hell is ID doing? (Score:5)

    by John Carmack ( 101025 ) on Saturday February 26, 2000 @04:17PM (#1244669)
    I had talked with Zoid about it a few times over the years, and I think he is making a pretty good decision.

    It wasn't always clear from the outside, but Zoid was a remote contractor, not an employee. It was a low key relationship that worked out well for all of us. He stayed in canada and basically worked on whatever he liked, because I thought he had pretty good judgement. He had responsibility for the linux ports and the CTF code, but much of his time was his to allocate as he wanted.

    With Loki now picking up the maintenance of the linux port (as well as my steadily increasing involvement with linux), and a new game design starting at Id, his choice was basically to either go develop a brand new Q3 mod by himself, or go work for one of the many gaming companies that had been trying to hire him.

    We weren't interested in bringin on another core programmer at id, especially another one with immigration hassles (we have had enough issues with that for a small company). We would have been happy to continue the current arrangement indefinately, but he wanted to get out of the holding pattern.

    Another thing he mentioned that I am sympathetic to is the desire to get a bit out of the community limelight. Being a public figure of some note isn't always all it is cracked up to be.

    We are parting on the best of terms (leaving right AFTER a project completes is the considerate way to go). He is going to finish up the Quake2 linux updates (better X/GLX support), even if he has to complete the work from his new job.

    John Carmack

  • Dunno why are you bitching and hiding.. but I'd like to point out that Zoid wrote the current Q3CTF, and many don't even know what mods are.. those are the ones who are stuck with the DM with Flags like I like to say - Zoid didn't make a right move imho on this one.

    But he did a fine job porting q1/q2 to linux.. I'd be running these under linux since a long time ago if I had decent OpenGL drivers (nVidia..)

    Classic CTF is one answer to retrieve the true lost spirit of Q1CTF and in some respects Q2CTF - found here [captured.com].

    Hopefully they will release a beta soon..

  • No. It is because of the constantly fresh material that we keep coming back...not because all the articles sit there for a month till the next 'issue'.

    I doubt the Bjarne interview (and yes, that was definitely a /. highpoint and very cool) would have been noticed by anywhere near as many people if it had shown up on some 'zine page.

    This article is particular is a good one.

    Just my too sents :-)

  • linux quake code is gpl dummy.
  • It blows the voodoo away. I must admit though, I'm not sure how effective this is going to be when we are still dealing with TVs that might be scanning 480 rows if you're lucky.

    Well, duh, of course it beats the V3. A lot of PC cards also blow away the V3. But how likely do you think it will be that that a chipset being output to a tv will beat, say, a GeForce 256 running at 1280x1078? The resolution difference alone will give the computer an advantage. Let's also consider that a V3 is 16-bit. It's like how the @Home guys keep comparing their service to a 28.8. I don't think it's very likely the Dolphin will be able to beat a 32-bit card running at a decent resolution, 'cause it'll always have to output to a tv.

  • As long as you keep fraggin in >BC>, Im sure a few of your victims will forgive you for leaving ID *smile*

    Jailbrekr[TCM]
  • -- if this is the case why should I pay $70 (CDN) for the game?

    I'm in BC, Canada and on boxing day, Future Shop was selling Q3A for $69. Instant rebate of $20 at the till, and a mail-in rebate for $20. I got Q3A for $29 plus tax, in Canadian funds. Too bad for you I guess.

  • What will they think of next!
  • read the subject, silly $PERSON.

    Label me a Carmack whore if you must, but any Quake[$x] comments by The Man deserve to be marked as such.

    oh, and John.. sorry about another few watts of limelight.. :)
  • Moderaters please put this post up to a 5. This is the information that everyone confused (and it seems that just about everyone is) needs to see to clear things up.

  • Printing? Ever heard of email?
  • Moderation (as in removal of postings) seems an evil thing, limiting freedom of speech..

    But seeing all these postings here, which clearly shows disrespect towards other people in general, really sadness me..

    1) If you are a teenager doesn't give you an excuse to react childish and un-adolescent.
    2) You might not agree, dislike or not understand what "being gay" is about, and maybe Dave 'Zoid' Kirsch is gay and maybe he's not the slimmest person on earth (neither am I), it doesn't give you the right to insult and yes, I might even say, hurt someone with these flames concerning this subject.
    Maybe the persons who reacted most fiercly on this subject are the ones who are having the most personal problems with sexuality.
    Linking being gay to AIDS is an evil thing also..
    Sure, it is quite known gays take more risks if it comes to making unproctected love, but if you look at AIDS in general, more straight people are hit by this decease than gays and dieing of AIDS is horrible thing..

    I myself am straight, but the only reason why I mention this, is because if you would say to me "You big fat gay, shut up' you would not greeve me as much as when you would be saying that towards a gay person with weight problems (common problem amongst programmers). Gays are sensitive people you know and you know what, they even got feelings!

    Now back to the topic..
    This moderation thing is causing me to get headaches, should we or shouldn't we moderate?

    I myself can say, that I haven't used my moderation rights a couple of times already, because I really was put off by stupids posts like you can find a lot on this article..
    This is not right..
    We don't like people to control freedom of speech etc.. but do these anonymous cowards ever brought us any good? If I recall it right, some stupid ACs where even quoted in the CSS-case as representing the average /. people..

    Just my 2 eurocents..

  • Apparently, prey is still in development from the look of 3drealms' website
  • I am no expert on this situation, but from what I see, ID has had a lot of employee turnover in the last year.

    Seems to me that the turnover rate in the gaming industry is pretty high, period. Same with radio. Nature of the beast, I suppose.

    I myself am a critic of Carmack, I read his interviews and just don't like him.

    To each his own, but why? I find him very impressive in almost every respect.

  • I bought both games - Q3 and UT but I find myself playing UT almost 100% of the time. My purchase of Q3 was partially based on loyalty to ID - I've spent hundreds of hours playing their games! But the bots in UT actually make mistakes and I can play a game of UT that's not so hectic that it loses all strategy. Q3 was pretty cool but the CTF wasn't too hot and CTF is all I ever play except maybe a bit of assualt.

    Maybe it's just me but I LIKE strategy, I LIKE defending a goal, deathmatch is just not interesting to me. As such UT is what I play and while I still believe in ID, having bought all of their games since Castle Wolfenstien (sp?), I think that it's time they changed direction a bit.

    UT has some pretty good innovations, and Tribes has also got some awesome innovations - for that matter I did liek SOME of what Q3 brought to us. I just hope that the next ID game is bigger, possibly has some sort of "world" like UO and Everquest, and isn't quite so fast paced. I just can't get into twitch fests with jumping eyeballs and while that was cool for awhile it quickly wore off.

    Heh, it's funny - until I read this thread I didn't even realize that he'd released a map pack. The as shipped CTF maps blew and the lack of a grapple ticked me off too.

    Good luck to Zoid, he really did make Quake fun for me as without CTF I'd have stopped playing it much more quickly!

    BLKMGK
  • > But unfortunately less fun with every itteration of Quake, Good time to move on before things hit rock bottom.

    Why give up a good thing? Heck, I still play MegaTF everyweekend !

    > I don't know if it's my gaming rig (Ppro233/Voodo2/NT4

    I still had a Pro200/Voodoo2/NT4 last Dec so I feel your pain. Thief and and the newer games just wouldn't cut it. Get yourself a Cel366 for $35 and overclock it to 550. I went the dual cel366 + abit bp6 route :-) A pretty inexpensive SMP system!

    Cheers
  • Zoid leaving id, while definately not the best news ever, is not the end of the world for all the fans of his work... He is obviosly keeping his feet in the gaming community, and I get the feeling he will continue to contribute to Quake*, CTF, and other related projects that we've all come to love. On a side note, what is known about this company he is going to work for? I've never heard of them.
  • I thought the hook was one of Wedge's projects back in the Quake Command days?
  • quakeworld 'broke' the original grappling hook, so wedge fixed it - rewrote it to be qw happy.
  • a message to whoever moderated this:

    can you read ? this is true. search the playboy archives on this one. if anyone has seen this article, email me so i can post it.

    thx

  • I know what you mean, to a degree. I have been playing since the original Quake and could barely imagine having more fun than I did with that. I recall all the lag, but I also remember the innovation, awesome soundtrack, badass monsters (Ogre? Sloth? Skrag? The bigass bloodquenching baddie whose name i forgot :)), the eruption of a scripting world. it was all just too fun. nowadays we simply have varying degrees of robot-like monsters. Quake3 models seem good, but I cant judge it until i leave TRIBES and EverQuest, get my new K7 500MHz system up, and play through Unreal Tournament some more and then finally move on to Q3. Stuck on a P233 MMX w/ Diamond Moster3D II & 128MB RAM for now. PS: remember the mod where you could play as the Quake1 monsters?
  • Label me a Carmack whore if you must, but any Quake[$x] comments by The Man deserve to be marked as such.

    I tend to disagree, Carmack's comment deserve to be moderated like any other comment, that is, without any bias given the author but infunction of the content of the comment. Would you want him to be moderated +5 if he was doing a FIRST POST? Well, maybe the first time it would be moderated +5 funny but otherwise this would be silly.

    Luckily, JC don't have time to lose doing this kind of stupid things (and i prefer him using his time for doing cool stuff liek Quake rather than trolling) and only speak when he has got something interesting to say, so he gets moderated in consequence.

    Of course this apply to any public figure.

  • If Bubble Bobble isn't ported to the new system, there will be hell to pay!
  • We are parting on the best of terms (leaving right AFTER a project completes is the considerate way to go).

    So does that mean that you consider Brian Hook inconsiderate for leaving before Quake 3 was out the door? Or was Brian correct that HIS part of the developement process was complete?

  • That's not damn flamebait, its a damn bug that ID hasn't bother to fix for 3 games now! Just because you, mr censor, isn't annoyed by that bug doesn't mean the rest of the planet agrees with you...
  • so keep in mind, the next t ime your child wants a nintendo game/console, that the Nintendo company used to run a whore house. betcha we never see a game like that.

    If they'd stuck to the prostitution business my opinion of them would be much higher :-)

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