the_mad_poster's Journal: Yeah so..... (Users Are Stupid)

Explain to me, please, how you can possibly mess up data entry on a form with only one field that can only accept a single key to lookup a database record?

Look.... people.... it's very simple. You enter a key. You use these keys every day for numerous things, so you have to know them. How is it that a form with only one field for you to enter these very simple keys in is too complicated for you? I mean, this thing jumps through countless hoops to try and make sure that no matter what you enter, you get back exactly what you expect. See.... the only thing you have to really do... is enter what you actually want.

And still, you cannot handle that. I plugged this system in on December 30th at 6:00 P.M. That means it has been in production now for less than 8 hours, 7 hours of which almost nobody was around to use it. I already have 5 SQL errors in my little logfile here reporting syntax errors. Why? Why is my system with this oh-so-simple interface throwing, of all things, SQL errors!? I'll tell you why...

Because people are double, triple, in one case even QUADRUPLE clicking on the button to submit the form (there's a huge difference between individuals KEYS and the CATEGORIES these keys are under. In an another amusing instance, someone looked at the only word on the page: "key" in big bold letters, and typed into the form..... a category. Four times. I don't know if they thought maybe the system was going to change fundamentally after it didn't work the first time, but I have to give this person [who I could identify by IP if I really wanted to] credit for being an optimistic sort).

So, now, because you do not even know how to use a form with a single field to interface with a system that practically reads your mind, I am forced to disable the submit button with an onSubmit event. It's like a child having a pencil taken from him because he keeps stabbing the kid sitting next to him. You can't even handle this simplistic a tool, so I must further dumb it down for you and make you write with crayons. If it gets any worse, I'll have to walk around to your computers and do the submissions for you.

In fact, it may just be easier if you call me directly and tell me exactly what you want. I'll be your form. I'll be your interface to the database you cried out for and now can't figure out how to use.

I'd go along with that idea but for one thing.

I don't know if I trust you to use a phone properly. You'd probably wind up calling the Kremlin or something, and we'd see the rise of a new USSR and Cold War.

It could happen. Some users are just plain dumb enough to make it so.

Had a similar issue

[StalinsNotDead]

The form was a bit more complicated, but in essence the same issue.

It was a "Select the items you wish to bill" page. There were numerous rows with checkboxes next to them. You check the checkboxes for the entries you want to bill, then click the submit button. If the submit button got clicked twice everything selected would double bill. There was something with the postback routine (in C# .Net) that made the disable submit button with Javascript not work. But I wrote a little script that moved and resized

no pity here

[FortKnox]

Obviously, you overestimated your audience. You need to dumb the program down more. When they click the button, disable the button, and change the label to "Loading..." or something of the sort.

You do have lots of error checking and report issues back to the user in terms they can understand, right?

Re:no pity here

[the_mad_poster]

Well, here's the crazy thing. I'm more or less not "allowed" to tell the users what they should've been doing, I'm expected to build the system so that it is relatively failsafe and hold their damn hands so heavily that they shouldn't have to think for even a millisecond about what they actually want. This system actually runs through an unbelievable number of checks and rechecks to try and figure out:

1. What information the user actually entered.
2. What information the user actually WANTED to enter.

Re:no pity here

[sillypixie]

So you are saying that you aren't allowed to provide any contextual help, or to put anything else on the form other than the word "KEY"?

Sounds like you've been set up to fail! But I do think you're being a little hard on your users, if they are supposedly allowed to type anything in, and expect you to figure out what they want...

Could you not give them an example? Sounds like there must be some extra real estate on the page...

Pixie

Re:no pity here

[the_mad_poster]

Well, thing is this - I know that "key" sounds very, very vague when you read it here, but within the context of the entire section, and the steps you go through to get to that page first (i.e. - the description in the links you click to get to it) coupled with the fact that "key" is not just a general term, but, in this instance, a very specific piece of information that they understand in relation to the bigger picture, it's something that should be as clear as day to anyone who would need to use this for

Re:no pity here

[sillypixie]

My condolences, that sounds very, very not-fun.

What size of company are we talking about? They seem to have the de-humanization part down pat...

Pixie

Re:no pity here

[Doctor O]

You see, my clients include global players in a) selling cars, b) cosmetics/perfume and c) nail studios. If you are looking for the dumbest amoebas on this planet's surface, look no further. Unsuspectedly, the car salespeople are worst. We've had people with prodviders not updating their DNS in SIX WEEKS so that users would get to a database from Henkel (one of our clients), with a 10-second animation of the Henkel logo and a HUGE "Chemical Image Database" headline instead of an online advertising tool. Yep

The problem

[dead sun]

The problem is that idiots are so ingenius. Despite attempts to make things idiot-proof, somebody will build a better idiot.

As for form problems, I hear you. I've done some work in the past and learned all sorts of tricks that people do to break things you make them. Sure, it seems like they don't know what they're doing that makes things break, but I have this sneaking feeling that some of them know all too well just what to do to find and exploit the single thing that isn't tied down far enough.

As for the

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Yep, users are stupid ...

[tomhudson]

So what you need to do to keep them from clicking multiple times (I'm assuming that they're clicking, then the server returns a reply page after processing the query) is to add a javascript event to disable the submit button after its been clicked once.

If it's not a web app then just add code to disable the submit button after it's been clicked, and (optionally) re-enable it after the result has been given.

Hope this helps.

and people wonder why desktop linux needs A-V....

[kesuki]

Your je perfectly exemplifies why a 'desktop' linux distro needs Anti-virus software. Once people using linux drop below a certain fundamental awarness level, the problem of social engineerd viruses becomes real.. you can tell people not to click on links in email, not to open attachments, but THEY WILL you can tell them 100,000,000 times that the 'free screensaver' e-mail they got was really a virus, but if you don' delete the e-mail from them, they will run IT AGAIN and Reinfect thier machine with the S

problem is probably on your end

[spongebob7487]

The real problem seems to be that you are letting your users determine appropriate key values for you data model. Why do you get SQL errors when people click submit more than once? You should be generating the keys. In the worst case scenario, you should just get multiple entries in the database. Disabling the submit button won't keep users from going back to the page and simply typing in the same value again in a separate browser instance... Unless I'm missing something or misunderstood your issue, the pr