"Companies, especially recruiters and b2b contractor shops, want fresh graduates"

No they don't. Even entry-level positions have been demanding 3-5+ years of experience. Anything interesting is 10+ years. Firms have constanlty been moving the bar upwards in terms of what they're demanding in terms of after-graduation experience since the 2001 collapse.

From what I've seen, hiring of domestic grads has been minimal in the past decade. I don't know why people say that IT careers end at 35 -- for the past decades worth of grads, they mostly weren't even able to begin. Top grads from top schools can send out hundreds of resumes and not even receive the courtesy of a response. Employers immediately jump to the guest worker queues, even though they're being hit with thousands of applications for the positions.

One trashy company fighting another, only the lawyers are going to win here.

"but COMP SCI majors only work for 150K+ would laugh at you for offering anything less so as consequence company needing ordinary developers cant recruit any reasonable amount of female workers even after reducing requirements to bare minimum"

Average starting salary for the 40% of UCB or Cornell graduates that manage to find employment, out of their CS/IT/Math programs, is only around $80k. In some of the highest cost of living centres in the United States.

$150k is wildly unrealistic for a CS major. Most don't even achieve that after decades on the job.

As for 'basic level of skill', I certainly hope you're not giving coding tests on interviews. Nobody, not even geek developers, walk around with all of the minutae of syntax and libraries for every language in their head. If they made it through a CS degree, chances are, they're perfectly qualified for your position.

CS students and CS departments can't do anything to attract more female students. The problem is that the industry has been dominated, lock, stock and barrel, by foreigners on guest worker visas and green cards. If females wanted to experience Indian culture and be assaulted by the stench of curry all day, they'd move to Calcutta. Nobody is going to study CS degrees, especially females, as long as the industry is so dysfunctional in terms of hiring domestic talent. Females know better than to place their career hopes on an industry that only hires often 1 in 50, 1 in 200, even 1 in 1000 applicants (ie: Google), or worse metrics at other firms.

If the industry wants more females, it needs to start treating everyone with a significant amount of more respect.

Official "party line" of Google perhaps, but Google receives so many resumes each year that it would be humanly impossible to actually find the best. After all, only 1 in 1000 are actually hired for their softeng positions, and I highly doubt they do thorough screenings on the other 999 people. Tons of geniuses fall through the cracks at Google, or are otherwise rejected by their very dysfunctional hiring system.

Very well put, domestic females see that top grads (of both genders) can send out hundreds, sometimes thousands of resumes, not even to receive the courtesy of responses from employers who are constantly in the media claming a need for guest workers. Logically, they refuse to have anything to do with this racket and an industry which goes around claiming that top US grads are 'unqualified' despite being some of the smartest STEM students in the world.

In case people haven't seen this, here are some myths and facts about tech employment which rightfully should scare domestic people, men and women, away from studying STEM subjects:

Tech Employment Myths and Facts

Myth: Good tech employees are hard to find, interview, and hire.

Fact: The resume queues of most firms are chock full of highly motivated and qualified individuals looking to do the jobs that are thrown at them.

Myth: There’s a shortage of engineers and other STEM personnel.

Fact: The United States has twice the number of STEM personnel unemployed as it has actually working in STEM jobs. STEM-trained individuals are often forced to perform low-value clerical and administrative tasks that, if a shortage existed, could be offloaded to other personnel with little or no STEM training.

Myth: Tech skills become obsolete six months after a person hasn’t used them or isn’t in school.

Fact: Not true at all, most tech skills are not of the type that become obsolete or forgotten. An individual who hasn’t used a particular skill for a long time may need a short period to refamiliarize themselves with the particular skill. No different than someone who has not swung a golf club for a few months, or taken a summer break from the winter recreational activity of skiing. Even a highly experienced individual may have to spend a significant amount of time learning how their existing skill relates to the new employers' business or technical environment. There is no such thing as "hitting the ground running" in tech.

Myth: New CS grads from US universities don’t know how to code. I give them coding tests in interviews and they don’t even know what libraries to use! I have no choice but to hire the foreigners because they do!

Fact: Coding skills are an integral part of all CS curricula at US schools. But since the field is so vast, individuals cannot be expected to remember all the minutae involving syntax, libraries, etc. Often ‘foreign’ candidates have been coached on interview techniques by company insiders, or have been taught “coding” in the so-called ‘rote memorization’ fashion which is great for recitation, but horrible for creativity.

Myth: Engineering and CS grads are anti-social people, not good workers for my business.

Fact: CS grads come in all shapes, sizes, and levels of social skills. Without calling them up and interviewing them, you cannot really tell.

Myth: Engineering and CS/IT employees are “cost centres” of my business because they do not generate revenue nor profit.

Fact: Try generating any profit without using computers or without having any engineered product to sell. Think about that for a while.

Myth: One can judge, “on the face of a resume”, whether a person is qualified for a position.

Fact: Resumes, being text documents, cannot possibly embody all of the skillsets and personal attributes of an individual. The only way of determining qualifications in most cases, for an individual who has the requisite degrees, is to actually have an individual in for an interview. Especially in IT, where many skills, thought to be trivial, are not typically placed on a resume, or an individual has acquired significant experience in an area due to personal projects.

Myth: Guest workers save my business money, they work for cheap, and when they get sick, I can deport them instead of paying huge health insurance claims.

Fact: Guest workers consistently provide poor value for employers and the economy generally. Over a million guest workers have flooded into the United States, creating one of the worst recessions/depressions since the 1930s. If guest workers were so great, the economy would otherwise be booming. Individual businesses face substantial risks of theft of intellectual property because guest workers often have multiple loyalties. Guest workers on the H-1B visa are now suing employers who lay them off on grounds that would otherwise be prohibited.

Myth: All the top grads from the top schools have been snapped up by Google/Microsoft/Facebook and other big brand-name tech companies. Even if I could afford to pay a $100k salary, I still wouldn't be able to hire anyone. I thus have no choice but to use guest workers.

Fact: Less than 40% of the grads from top schools in CS, EE, Math, and IT, such as UC Berkeley, and Cornell, are employed, and the average salary of grads of these top schools is typically less than $80k/year. Only a handfull of individuals from either school go to those three brand-name tech firms. The other 60% of the class, without job offers, would be thrilled to see you on campus or accepting resumes through your firm's resume
queue.

Myth: The tech job market is so hot right now that all the good people are taken.

Fact: High quality talent find themselves in the contemporary market drowned out in the sea of resumes. It has been said that the resume sorting system at Google is so dysfunctional that even Linus Torvalds (the famous author of the Linux Kernel) could apply for a Kernel Engineer position at Google and receive not even the courtesy of a response. Facebook has automated the rejection process to the point where perfectly qualified candidates receive rejections within seconds after being enticed to complete a Facebook online application.

Myth: HR tells me that the resume queues of my business for IT and engineering positions are full of people who are not qualified. 90% of the candidates we receive resumes from are merely 'spamming' their resumes.

Fact: Without reading all of those resumes, how do you really know? Individuals rarely will waste their time applying to a job for which there is no nexus between the job, and their qualifications. Very few job websites are easy enough to navigate that a resume can be submitted with the mere click of a button. And HR people are not engineers or IT people, how would they be able to properly assess qualifications if they are not even trained in the field?

Myth: The US tech industry would come to a halt if the H-1B and L-1 visas were cancelled and the individuals holding them (and Green Cards derived from them) deported. These individuals are, after all, the "best and brightest". America cannot afford to lose its "best and brightest" talent and expect to compete in the global marketplace.

Fact: The O-1 visa is the appropriate visa for the 'best and brightest', and is available in unlimited numbers to "best and brightest" job candidates. H-1B and L-1 cancellation would open nearly a million job opportunities for unemployed and underemployed STEM workers in the United States. H-1B's are typically paid at, or just slightly above the 'prevailing wage'. A wage rate that has been significantly suppressed due to a million guest workers in the United States. America can best compete in the global marketplace by putting its domestically trained engineers back to work and giving Americans priority in the job market for American jobs.

Myth: Most of the students in US universities studying science and engineering are foreigners. Therefore, to maintain a representative workforce, business must hire a large number of foreigners simply to obtain the talent they need.

Fact: 90% of the graduates from STEM programs in the United States are United States Citizens. Caucasian males, but increasingly females, are heavily represented. A 'representative workforce' of STEM workers in the United States would be comprised mostly of Caucasian males. Equal opportunity and employment diversity laws have been dealt a massive setback in the United States by technology firms primarily hiring foreign nationals from 3rd world countries in preference to qualified US citizens with massive investments in their personal education, student loan committments, etc.

Myth: Silicon Valley and the tech industry is a brute meritocracy

Fact: If it was a meritocracy, why are UC Berkeley and Cornell employment rates in the sector for grads less than 40%? Why are H-1B’s brought in by the boatload while America’s best and brightest don’t even receive interviews from most of the Valley’s tech firms? Why is being a top grad, but graduating without a previous internship basically the kiss of death to tech career prospects? Silicon Valley is anything but a meritocracy.

The "200 resumes" part is a giant problem. Females, perhaps being smarter than men, know to avoid situations where the chances of success are 1 in 200 (or even less, if you throw a hissy fit and refuse to hire anyone from the stack!).

A lot of this is caused by the excess people in the market because of the H-1B visa and the use of guest workers when America has no shortage of highly skilled STEM graduates that are capable of filling all of the positions that are available.

Indeed, the hiring decisions are being made by people with no IT background, and they usually go for the Indian H-1B's, or outsourcing firms dominated by the same. H-1B has been a giant setback to efforts to achieve greater societal inclusion in the tech industry. Low wages paid in the tech industry drive out bright talent as well. If females are smarter than males, they certainly are smart enough to avoid the industry that has been in a significant long-term decline in the USA, in favour of jobs that actually pay well.

Giant elephant in the room is the H-1B visa, and out of control guest worker infestation of US tech workforces. Most H-1B's are Indian nationals who are hired only because they are cheap. Hiring rates out of some of the top US schools, such as Cornell and UC Berkeley, of US best and brightest graduates, are less than 40%. Even class valedictorians often find it takes years to find a job after graduation. Most tech workforces are devoid of domestic tech hires made after the 2001 crash.

The industry was making great strides in the 1990s to become more representative, and to employ greater numbers of black people, women, and other individuals. Engineers were provided with proper assistants and secretarial help, typically intelligent young women. H-1B set this back, not only ruining job prospects for American engineers (including sidelining some of the top quality talent because firms don't want to ante up the premium bucks), but also setting back the prospect of representative workplaces.

And don't even get me started on how intimidated a typical WASP American female will feel in a typical Silicon Valley or NYC curry den of software development, where Indian H-1B guest workers definitely do not treat women as their equals. Also, benefits, often of significant value to women, such as work-life balance, maternity, flex time, etc., have been slashed dramatically as the result of the H-1B invasion and a job market that is unilaterally unbalanced in favour of employers.

Don't know where you get your data from, but it was 90%+ WASPs at the top 20 school I attended for EE/CS. And IEEE events, again, were mostly WASPs (what a derogatory term, BTW, no surprise that a H-1B promoting bullshitter like yourself would use it....I should start calling you a Paki..how'd you like that???)

"They do, most applicants are worthless crap which is why they don't get an interview"

How would you or anyone even know this if firms don't even bother to interview? Use your fucking brain you sack of shit.

See how full of shit you are? You're nothing but a H-1B loving bullshit spreader. Go back to India you where open defecation is an accepted part of life. Rakish, lol, synonym for Indian faggot.

They're not looking at the resumes. That's the problem. Resume queues at Silicon Valley tech firms mostly are directed straight to /dev/null. >1000 resumes received for each hire at Google, for instance. And other firms are in very similar positions. Unless you were a previous intern, or have an open source resume a mile long, forget about it.

The surveys show very high unemployment and very little new grad hiring in the past decade. And fifty events, lol, you're such a bullshitter. DIdn't you say you live in NY?

"You're a moron, you know that right?"

No I don't know that (but its no surprise that a H-1B pushing bullshitter like yourself would resort to calling people names). Nobody bothers to interview or test me to apply that label.

If firms were interviewing qualified domestic candidates who applied, and treating them in good faith, then I'd have no problem with the H-1B visa. But it is quite clear that they're not bothering to do that. Silicon Valley tech employers are absolutely hooked on H-1B labour to the extent that even top grads can spend years unemployed before they receive so much as the 'time of day' from an employer. Do the math; no expansion of the tech sector in over a decade, record numbers of Americans studying STEM in the late 1990s. A million H-1B's admitted to the country. Massive numbers of new grads and experienced people must be displaced because of the insanity of the H-1B visa and its deletrious effect on the industry.