Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
Graphics

Journal nizo's Journal: I fear that my worst fears may be realized 21

Journal by nizo

Full article here.

BAGHDAD - On Nov. 22, the top U.S. military and civilian leaders in Iraq handed over Saddam Hussein's most lavish palace compound to the safekeeping and control of the new Iraqi army and government, in a ceremony whose intended symbolism was as impossible to ignore as the military brass band.

...


But in the days after American forces and the Iraqi brass band pulled out of the circular palace drive on a bluff overlooking the Tigris River, local officials now say, looters moved in, ripping out doors, air conditioners, ceiling fans and light-switch plates from some of the compound's 136 palaces, leaving little more than plaster and dangling electric wires.

...


In Washington, the Bush administration trumpeted the handover. "The Iraqi forces are becoming more capable on a daily basis, and so this was, I think, an important example of that process moving forward," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said that day. "It was, I think, symbolically important that this was a handover of one of Saddam's former palaces that he built in his home town, and now Iraqi forces that truly represent the will of the Iraqi people are now going to have control of that palace."

...


I so badly fear that the invasion of Iraq will be remembered in history as the beginning of the end for America. We burn bridges with the world, crush the old regime (who was evil, I will grant that) and then we pull out and leave a huge power vacuum, which is quickly filled by people who hate us even worse. And to top it off, during the time we did all this we pissed off even more people, actually helping to swell the ranks of those who really hate us. I am normally a pretty paranoid person, but I don't see any good way out of this mess: either pull out quick and fail, or stay until we go bankrupt.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

I fear that my worst fears may be realized More

I fear that my worst fears may be realized

Comments Filter:
  • The palaces weren't defended, so the looters stripped them. Why weren't they defended? Why wasn't the looting stopped?

    Maybe it was because the new power structure knows that the riches in Saddam's palace came at the expense of his people, and so now the people are taking what Saddam gained from oppressing them.

    Plus, who cares what happens to one of Saddam's palaces? The people over there might not want a standing reminder of Saddam's reign of terror.

    Finally, don't believe everything the main stream me

    • I certainly don't have a problem with the locals looting, since the wealth was directly taken from them anyway by Saadam. And I hope that the looting was allowed by the new government, but my guess is that it wasn't. Regardless, I do agree the press is biased, though without seeing things firsthand (which I personally can't do) it is really difficult to know what is actually happening.

      Just to spin things the other way, how do we (meaning you and I) know that many of the insurgents are Syrian? I mean aside f

    • "Maybe it was because the new power structure knows that the riches in Saddam's palace came at the expense of his people, and so now the people are taking what Saddam gained from oppressing them."

      Oh what the fuck ever dude. So let me get this straight. The Iraqi Army LET the looters pilliage the palace because they thought the very existance of the palace was MORALLY WRONG?

      Can I say this? You are REALLY reaching here.

      Any Army in the world, theirs or ours or somebody else's, defends what assets it is able
      • speaking of toeing the party line. hmph.

        also... why so hostile? i just don't get it. you can't just disagree... you have to be hostile.

        i guess my question is... so how much time have you spent over in iraq? hmmm?

        now me, i haven't spent any time there... i only know what the news media says... and everyone's got an agenda to fuel... so i am not going to take their word for anything... its too early to tell.

        sheesh... i just can't stand people who speak with such authority on topics like this.
        • "speaking of toeing the party line. hmph."

          I'm actually fairly moderate.

          "also... why so hostile? i just don't get it. you can't just disagree... you have to be hostile."

          I realize it must come off that way, but honestly, I was just being blunt. Me being hostile is an altogether uglier thing. There's a difference between being hostile and calling bullshit for what it is. I could dig up some of my past "hostile" posts if you want an example. But it's not pretty and I try to avoid it.

          "i guess my question is.
      • Oh what the fuck ever dude. So let me get this straight. The Iraqi Army LET the looters pilliage the palace because they thought the very existance of the palace was MORALLY WRONG?

        As nizo points out, some of the looting was done by the people who were supposed to be defending it. I just said they might not want a reminder of Saddam's reign, not that the existence of the palace was morally wrong - your assertion that I think the existence was morally wrong is a weak straw man.

        You're right, they don't ne

        • "your assertion that I think the existence was morally wrong is a weak straw man."

          So you think there was nothing wrong with the existance of the palaces? Because when you say things like "Why weren't they defended? Why wasn't the looting stopped? Maybe it was because the new power structure knows that the riches in Saddam's palace came at the expense of his people, and so now the people are taking what Saddam gained from oppressing them." you might not be using the word "morality", but that's clearly what
      • Oh what the fuck ever dude. So let me get this straight. The Iraqi Army LET the looters pilliage the palace because they thought the very existance of the palace was MORALLY WRONG?

        Let's see. So there was this guy, right? He and his minions could "silence" you and make your relatives disappear in the night. And now he's out of power. I could absolutely see police turning a blind eye towards all looting and grafitti of his palaces, becuase as hard as life is now, he was a complete dick.

        The American Army,
        • "Let's see. So there was this guy, right? He and his minions could "silence" you and make your relatives disappear in the night. And now he's out of power"

          Really? We're going to take out Kim-Jong Il? Oh. So, we're going to take out Pervez Musharraf? Oh. OK then, we're going to take out Prince Bandar? No? Well then, it's crystal clear. A complete dick who could make you disappear overnight.

          We must be about to take out George W. Bush.

          "It is way too late for that now."

          Excuse me - did you just say that
          • Really? We're going to take out Kim-Jong Il? Oh. So, we're going to take out Pervez Musharraf? Oh. OK then, we're going to take out Prince Bandar? No? Well then, it's crystal clear. A complete dick who could make you disappear overnight.

            Intriguing point, but not the perspective I was talking about. I'm talking about the Iraqi perspective. I'm pretty sure they'd be cool with you whipping it out and urinating on a picture of Hussein in public (despite it being against the law). This is the point I'm makin
            • "I'm pretty sure they'd be cool with you whipping it out and urinating on a picture of Hussein in public "

              And I'd be happy to do so.

              "We side with India"

              We do? What makes you think that? Pervez "hairpeice" Musharraf is one of our "key allies" in the war on terrorism. Right?

              "we have big presence in South Korea and Japan is with us. "

              This would be the same Japan whose constitution doesn't allow it to have a traditional Army? And South Korea? OK. Well. Guess who's got L'il Kim's back?

              friggin CHINA. Do y

              • >>"but if we strike fear, thats almost as good"

                >This is funny. You know who was really good at "striking fear"? Fucking SADDAM HUSSEIN. Did him a lot of good, huh? Yeah, let's emulate THAT. GREAT idea. Fear brings about one thing and one thing only - HATE. And hate brings terror.

                Machiavelli at his best:

                "It is better to be feared than loved." Although, it is not better to be hated, nor to confuse political virtue and justice when this presents no imminent threat to power.
                (source [wikipedia.org])

    • Why weren't they defended? Why wasn't the looting stopped?

      I don't follow too closely the news there, so I don't know. Is it possible they were elsewhere defending the population...people are more important than the materials in this palace...

      The people over there might not want a standing reminder of Saddam's reign of terror.

      How true, although I don't think looting is the best way to deal with it; it's very likely that they'd rather not keep it around as a reminder of what used to be.

  • stay long enough to leave them with a fighting chance. you could be right, but i don't see it in this sacking of the old palaces. these lavish buildings, the fruit of Sadaam basically ripping off the entire nation, it makes sense that they would be plundered. i'd be shocked at anything else. from what i've read, a lot of the looting that was done, was carried out by those watching over the palaces.

    that doesn't mean things can't stabilize. ultimately, we just have to wait and see what happens.
  • What ever existed that did not? I don't think that history will find the beginning of the ned in Iraq however. If our end is to come soon, than its roots must lay within ourselves. Personally, while I think our country needs a good deal of help, I think that it should stagger along for another couple of centuries at least.
    • It could split into two countries ;) One allowing People to believe in creationism and another that is sane .
      One advances and the other regresses into an Amish like existence
      • It's become rather fashionable for Amish like people to blow up civilized people. Hence, Muslim terrorists destroy the World Trade Center, and Christian extremists in the United States destroy abortion clinics. There's little difference between Osama bin Laden and Pat Robertson.
  • They're also getting friendly with Iran.
    Iraq's president went and hung out with Iran's for a while, recently.
    And Iran promised something like $1B aid.

    What happens when the US decides to attack Iran on the pretext of their nuclear program?
    Will the official Iraqi Army fight the US, for attacking its regional ally?

Slashdot Top Deals

Single tasking: Just Say No.

Close