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Comment Re:Apples and oranges (Score 1) 61

When capitalism (in its modern crony form, since there has never been a free market) or communism (in its modern crony form, since there has never been equality between comrades) gets to 2000 years old, you MIGHT gain a point. Until then, your worship of modernism and utter lack of knowledge of history is blocking you from learning.

"Except you said their day job is hunter/gatherer. Their primary job is to hunt and gather. "

The average hunter/gatherer society works a 32 hour workweek. Plenty of time left over from that job for teaching the next generation.

"capitalists and communists can tell bed time stories too."

Yes they can. I never denied that economics can be a religion, only that it isn't a particularly successful one (due to extreme shortsightedness). When 2000 years old your religion is, maybe you'll have a point.

Wisdom is just how to apply knowledge. I don't know why you are scared of it.

From an evolutionary standpoint, correct wisdom reduces problems, incorrect wisdom increases problems. Cultures that increase problems, die out.

"And you do realize a lot of Christian sects don't let their priests or nuns marry and have kids, right?"

No problem with that as long as you don't use birth control or abortion. 10 child families feed vocations nicely.

Kings are never happy.

Comment Re:Apples and oranges (Score 1) 61

I was responding to "I'm not sure how to parse that sentence. "

"So you admit that religion is no different than capitalism or communism. Somebody wrote the religious books just as somebody wrote books on capitalism and communism. "

Yes. From the point of the view of the radical skeptic, they're all scams.

" Religion is just as materialistic and enslaved to lust as any other, and is no better at passing down wisdom."

Well, it's better in one way. I don't know of any 2000 year old markets.

"In other words, they were priests, but not the type of priest who functioned to pass down wisdom. "

Incorrect. Hunter/gatherer priests pass down a lot of wisdom. If they don't, the tribe starves to death.

"Their role as a "priest" was closer to that of a doctor or scientist today, working with what knowledge (not wisdom) they knew of the world to solve society's problems. "

Knowledge is a subset of wisdom. All true knowledge is necessary for wisdom; wisdom is how to apply the knowledge to solve society's problems. Religion passes on wisdom better than capitalism or communism has, for they just invent NEW problems.

"Ancient Egyptian priests for example didn't even care much for the common people. Their job was to perform rituals in temples (which commoners couldn't enter) to appease the gods, not pass down wisdom or teach the people about religion."

You apparently don't know much about ancient egyptian religion either, for this is entirely false. Did you learn all you know about Egyptian Religion from Stargate? The whole point of those grandiose temples was to inspire awe in the people and teach them something about their environment.

"Ergo, the existence of priests who-don't-pass-down-wisdom are not an example of how religion is somehow good at passing down wisdom."

You can come to all sorts of false conclusions when you invent fake data.

"which is why during the Christian church's peak in power (middle age feudalism all the way to age of colonialism and imperialism) so many royal families kept their blood "pure" through incest while still having many bastard children on the side, so there were plenty of potential contestants in the Game Of Thrones whenever there's an opening."

Which the church actively preached AGAINST, to the point of causing the Protestant Rebellion in England. Or did you forget that point?

"And surly none of the nobles and upper classes failed in exercising humility. The commoners loved their lords so much that they never dragged them out to the guillotine."

That was the atheists who caused that, remember?

"And surly the upper classes practiced love thy neighbor, like how King George loved his subjects. Intolerable acts that pissed off his subjects so much they broke off from his empire? Why he'd never!"

Protestants again. You'd think history was invented in 1500, by your level of knowledge. You know NOTHING about Medieval times, or actual Christendom between 600-1200 A.D., your examples are all modern.

"Oh, and again for chastity, slashdot ran a story [slashdot.org] recently that people are having less sex (read: more chase) than before. And they have less kids, at later times, if they even engage in relationships at all."

And you don't see the inevitable economic problem that will cause, do you. Chastity isn't just about NOT having sex- it's about having appropriate relationships that produce children so that the human race continues.

"How so? As I have shown, the good old past... wasn't."

And yet, 10 children families. MUCH happier, apparently.

"Well, religion is more enslaved to lust than being sexually free."

Then why does divorce exist in your "sexually free" system? And yes, people are having LESS sex, and thus are unhappier.

You're less than 10% of the society, you broke down taboos and demystified sex- and you caused a demographic collapse.

Comment Re:Apples and oranges (Score 1) 61

A single atheist can exist. A group of atheists, will argue theology until the cows come home.

Same with any other fundamentalist.

"Dude, aren't religious rules derived from the holy book/word of god?"

Somebody had to write that book. Long before it was in a book, it was oral tradition. Long before it was oral tradition, it was bedtime stories for kids by parents trying to impart wisdom to the next generation.

Most religions existed long before their scriptures were written. Scriptures are only necessary if you get more than four generations from the founder without the cult collapsing.

"Hunter/gatherers also needed a surplus before some voodoo priest can claim that his magically connection to God helped them find food."

Few hunter/gatherer societies ever achieved a surplus of food- every single day was spent hunting/gathering- and yet they still had priests (who were also hunters/gatherers, you're right as far as a priestly class goes, but the professional priest is a rather recent addition and even today isn't entirely true, every priest I know has side interests and side jobs).

We were better off then because we had the three noble virtues:
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/08/26/the-fading-of-three-christian-virtues/

We were happier back then.

Slavery to lust is still slavery.

Comment Re:Pierson's Puppeteers (Score 2) 695

Technology solves everything. Teach your children to think outside the box- and not only will they build a safer world for their kids and grandkids, they'll also make a ton of money off of fearful people in full panic trying to survive.

Myself, I'm thinking that if we start to see sea rise in feet rather than inches, it's time to invest in houseboats.

Comment Re:Apples and oranges (Score 1) 61

Haven't been back to the moon in over a generation. We've recently found out that horseman is back from the dead, in the form of antibiotic resistant disease, because you can't defeat evolutiohn. The internet is no different than the pony express, only faster, and could have just as easily been done with semaphore towers as routers.

"Free free to do so. As I said to MH42, the great thing about freedom is that you are free to do what you want, including nurturing your own spirit."

Tell that to the Democrats- they've been rather busy suing the pants off of people nurturing their own spirits lately.

Comment Re:Apples and oranges (Score 1) 61

"Empirically not true. The "human race" wasn't and isn't a single monolith. Societies across the globe developed independently, each gaining and passing down wisdom while having different or even no religion."

There is no human society greater than a single individual that does not include religion- AT ALL.

Those "arbitrary rules" actually evolve into place, and fit the way human beings survive in a place. You'd do far better to listen than to dismiss out of hand those rules.

"At the worse of times Christianity was partially responsible for the downfall of ancient Rome/Byzantine"

Actually,the rules of Christianity are what they are *because* of the downfall of ancient Rome. And it was Islam that killed the Byzantine empire, which shows how much you know about history.

" There had to be an agricultural surplus first before the voodoo priests can claim they have a special connection to the Gods that helps them magically make the harvest better. "

No, because hunter/gatherer cultures also had religion. You really are ignorant about human evolution, aren't you?

"stagnant in one spot, with little to no advancement."

Prove that what you have is actually advancement, instead of destruction.

"Feel free to elaborate on those ways."

Sustainable happiness for one.

"And if you think being more advanced in those ways makes the Good Old Days better than what we have here, feel free to disconnect yourself from this Internet and the rest our current civilization, gather like minded people, venture into the wilderness, and start your own little simulation of a feudal kingdom."

Anybody who tries that ends up with the federal troops shooting up the place.

"See, that's the great thing about freedom: you're FREE to go and retry the old ways yourself. You just can't force the rest of us to go with you."

Some freedom you have there. The freedom to be a slave.

Comment Re:Apples and oranges (Score 1) 61

"Best at what?"

At allowing the human race to pass down hard won wisdom to the next generation.

" Human development was more or less the same in the last tens of thousands (since the agricultural revolution, which predated religion)"

Actually, oddly enough, no. From the Fertile Crescent (the Garden of Eden) to the Water Goddess of Bali, it is religion that enabled and sustained the agricultural revolution.

"Human progress exploded in those last few centuries."

Depends how you define progress. Those agarian feudal kingdoms were significantly more advanced in some ways than we are today.

Comment Re:Apples and oranges (Score 1) 61

I was thinking more of how *Stalin* treated religious people.

There is a good reason for religious ruling over all- it really is the best model. Freedom and Liberty, as far as I'm concerned, lead only to Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump- the freest country in human history, electing two "above the law" elite liberal genocidal maniacs to try to run the place.

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Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him. - Fyodor Dostoevski

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