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Comment Re:"developed an artificial intelligence(AI) progr (Score 2) 135

The only reason the term doesn't have any meaning is because everyone's definition of "intelligence" is different in the first place. If you can define an unambiguous metric for intelligence, then it becomes pretty obvious what AI has to be: intelligence that is artificial, rather than natural.

Comment Re: It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

I think the Gigafactory 1 will make ZERO cars. It's about making batteries.

I tried to point out that it was a typo.... I didn't clarify immediately because I thought it might have been clear. What I meant was:

Do you seriously think the gigafactory is going to be making anything for anything but luxury-priced cars?

I wouldn't trust *any* company these days to bring down their own prices unless they were driven to do so by competition. Tesla is already having considerable success at selling cars priced more than 3 times as much as a similarly sized gasoline powered car, what possible incentive would they have to change that unless somebody else starts competing directly competing directly in their own class? I have heard, but not been able to confirm that other EV manufacturers are going to benefit from Tesla's gigafactory, but I'm pretty sure that if they did, Tesla would probably charge fees for its usage that would make it unviable for other manufacturers to be able to lower their prices much anyways. The only real difference would be in the quantity they could produce, not the end consumer price.

Comment Re:It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

If you reread what I wrote, I said that in general, the most costly maintenance that needs to be done on cars doesn't tend to happen any sooner than the extended warranty would *otherwise* offer. I did not suggest that everyone would necessarily get an exteded warranty. I do, but that's beside the point. My own experience is that the costs of doing so are *MORE* than compensated for by even a single unexpected incident that would otherwise be covered, and are in fact only modestly above what you would have otherwise paid for the kinds of regular maintenance it covers in that period anyways. bviously they are making a profit on it, but I don't object to other people making money, nor do I object to paying a little more for a convenience factor. I *do* object to paying more money for something that is less convenient, however, and the cost of maintenance over the first 5 years or so works out to perhaps a quarter of the price difference between an EV and a comparable sized vehicle, where gasoline is perhaps double that. Just around the time that the different in up-front cost for an EV might otherwise start to pay for itself in terms of savings, you have to replace the battery, which chews up another several years worth of maintenance and gasoline. Sure, in the long run an EV will save you money.... but the amount of time that you have to wait for it to do that is longer than the time that most people even own a car, unless they drive old beater cars that are so reliable that they'd be nuts to consider a trade-in.

And frankly only an idiot buys a new car.

Bad form... that's called poisoning the well, and is a type of ad-hominem argument that is equivalent to a logical fallacy.

I buy new cars because my experience has been that they have fewer maintenance issues and unexpected surprises than used vehicles. This makes them easier to budget for. I don't buy a car because I expect to get my money back, I buy a car to reliably and economically get me from place to place. Generally, I will try and drive a car until the cost of maintenance starts to climb to unacceptable levels. This invariably happens much sooner with used cars than with new. And somehow, my trying to be prudent with the money that I have at the moment makes me an idiot... Not sure how that works, but if you want to believe that, I'm not gonna stop you.

Comment Re: It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

I saw the typo instantly after I hit submit, but I was hoping it would be clear. Apparently not.

What I meant was:

Do you seriously think the gigafactory is going to be making anything for anything but luxury-priced cars?

It's Tesla's gigafactory.... And Tesla is not cheap. Even their so-called economy model costs more than 3 times as much as a similarly-sized gasoline car. Tesla isn't about to lower their price because they are already associated with a luxury brand, and people who can afford them are buying them, so Tesla has no incentive to drop their price.

Comment Re:It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

Yes, EV maintenance can be about 35% cheaper than ICE... but most of this maintenance cost difference does not typically even come into play until the car is past the period of any extended warranty that the manufacturer would otherwise offer... by which time you've finished paying for it, and can afford the extra couple of thousand dollars per year for maintence. EV's are more expensive up front, and the costs that you save on gasoline, the only significant cost for the first few years of ownership, are not as much as the price difference you'd have to pay on financing for the same amount of time as you would have financed a less expensive gasoline-powered car that was the same size as the EV you might have been considering. You can push out the payments over a longer period to lower the overall monthly burden and make it more financially attainable, but then you are making it take even longer before you actually will be begin to break even.

Not long after that, you would be looking at replacing the battery on an EV, which will chew up several more years more of gasoline and maintenance costs. In practice, you are not going to see any savings at all until well over a decade of driving it. Many people don't even drive a single car for that long.

Comment Re: It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

Less than a decade? Not likely. By the middle of this century, more probably. However, that is most probably outside of my expected lifespan, unless I am very lucky.

I would be completely willing to get an EV if and when they 1) didn't have such a large up-front cost such that you wouldn't even start to see any savings on gasoline costs for years down the road; and 2) there were subsidies that brought the costs down for installing electric charging outlets in older buildings. I just don't think that they are both likely to happen as soon as you believe that they will. You call it myopia, I call it cynical skepticism. Life is anything but ideal, and in my experience, it is never realistic to expect to ever become so.

Comment Re:It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

Yes, prices have dropped significantly on EV's.... but I honestly don't expect them to come down in price that much more. Cheaper cars will come out sure, but the Nissan Leaf, for instance, which retails in Canada starting at about $33k is a quite tiny car that is comparable in size to a gasoline-powered car that you could probably buy brand new for about $10k. And that's just for the cheapest electric car that there is.... for something of more usable size, it's just a whole lot more money. More reasonably, I'd be looking at upwards of $50k where a comparably sized gasoline vehicle currently costs about $20k. Costs are going to come down, sure.... but slowly. They'll become more popular certainly, but I don't think that they will hit a critical mass threshold in anything less than 30 years.

Comment Re:It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

Underground would make it cheaper, not more expensive

Well, they'd have to send in trucks to demolish the concrete... and they'd have to do it in sections so that they didn't make the entire parking lot inaccessible. The fact that it is underground would restrict the kinds of vehicles and equipment they could bring in, making it harder to acquire, and the costs for this is not cheap. We are already having some work done in our parkade this summer and the fact that they have to get special trucks in to fit down there is not an insignificant portion of the cost. And that's just for a couple of areas in the parkade, if we needed it for the entire thing, the cost would be tremendous.

Oh, so you're a disaster away from being in a disadvantageous situation? Then I submit, your situation is far more untenable than you realize, and you should consider that your problems are far more extensive than merely the provisioning of electric vehicles.

Not really.,.. there are many other buildings around that we could purchase from, but they are all from around the same period, and are generally not equipped with electrical in the parking areas. We just cannot afford to get anything in a new building, where such hookups are pretty standard now.

As a person who I see as somewhat intransigently resisting EVs for no good reason....

As I said before, you are dismissive of the points that I consider to be important. We established this some time ago. I'm not offended by this, I'm only pointing it out.

If we want to consider the average driving? Well, you can see MightyMartian's numbers. It's well within EV's capabilities at an easy level. The need for a 4-minute fillup is overwrought.

If I forget to fill up the previous night and need to still get to work on time, the need for a 4-minute fillup on my way to work is paramount

Driving 10 hours a day? Well, you've already walked away from that one without a clear answer, but there is a dollar value to you, most likely.

Yes... if EV's weren't already more expensive, and were practical for me to charge at home, I'd be entirely happy with renting a gasoline vehicle for the few times in a year that I *really* needed one... so yes, there is definitely a dollar value there.

But realiistically, EV's are not going to be coming down in price that much in my lifetime, and I don't see myself being able to afford to live in a building that is new enough to have outlets at every parking stall.

Comment Re:It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

Thousands of dollars for each unit? That's fucking terrible. Unless you have special circumstances, that is unreasonable for what is a relatively simple process. Of course, I wouldn't put it past someone to try to overcharge just because they think you haven't the foggiest clue how much it should really cost. It happens.

If the parking were outside, it would probably not be as expensive.... but most multi-family dwellings such as apartment buildings and townhouses around here have underground parking.

If your building suddenly becomes uninhabitable because of a tornado, fire, or other hazard, you'd have no choice but to move. Then why shouldn't such be available?

Our only option at that point would be to either downscale considerably and settle for a place about half of the size of our current home, which would be extraordinarily cramped for our lifestyle, or to find another similar sized condo in another building of similar age, and no more likely to have been equipped with more modern facilities. One could suggest that we temporarily rent for a while while our building was rebuilt in such a circumstance, but it's a foregone certainty that the prices per square foot in the rebuild would still be substantially higher, making a mortgage unviable.

Without you defining it, that's not as good a position as you may think. Not that chasing after you, and your needs, whatever they may be, is a good thing, but compared to the vast number of people, do you think an EV could satisfy their needs?

Well, I don't think I'm an anomaly, and I don't think my situation is particularly unique. I'm not everybody either, however, so I'm sure an EV would be suitable for a vast number of people that currently do not own one. I think that the biggest deterring factor to their not being more popular than they are, despite how well they would meet people's needs is their up-front cost, even after rebates, and the inconvenience that this cost creates to financing. Even if an EV may cost less in the long run, people are invariably going to feel that they need to get by on what they have today.

You may be right that costs of EV's will come down as they become more popular, but again, that's living in the hypothetical or ideal world, rather than the real one of the here, and the now.

Comment Re:It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

How much money would it take for you to deal with that hassle? Cash in your hand, how much money would it take?

Since you asked, if EV's cost *LESS* to buy than an otherwise visually comparable gasoline-powered car, that'd be an adequate reason.... except again for the fact that I can't charge at home.

Oh, but you said to that....

That's a non-persuasive argument, since putting in such equipment would be comparatively trivial.

Trivial, yes. Cheap? No. For my building, it would amount to a renovation going into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and would result in an assessment on the owners running into the thousands of dollars for each unit.

I know this because the subject has come up before at one of recent strata meetings. Suffice to say that this went over like a lead balloon with the owners... even those that might have considered getting an EV. it's simply not going to happen.

Say you were in a place where it was already done, do you think it would have added much to the construction costs?

But I'm not in a place where it's already done... nor am I likely to be, since even though I could probably get a good deal if I sold my current place, the money I'd get still wouldn't leave me with enough to buy a comparably sized unit in a much newer building that would have infrastructure for charging electric cars at night. As wonderful as it would be to live in an ideal world where everybody gets everything that they'd want out of life, that's not a world that anybody but the extremely wealthy live in.

And speaking of costs....

So you think. The thing is, you're leaving off the cost of pollution, maintenance, and other hassles that arise for an gasoline car, that are reduced with an electric.

All of those costs added together take years, at least as long as it takes to pay off the car, before I'd start to see any savings at all over a gasoline vehicle. And given that financing over any practical period typically makes the monthly payments higher than what I'd otherwise spend on a similar-sized vehicle including gas, it's only going to push the time before I'd start to see any savings that many more years further down the road.

I'm aware that what I'm talking about here is my convenience... and I've tried to define those conveniences quite specifically, but basically your counter to them appears to be naught much but "Oh, that doesn't matter".... except of course, when it does.

Comment Re:It's about landmass (Score 1) 455

I'm not the original poster here, but let me answer the questions anyways... bear in mind that this *MY* opinion, based on *MY* experiences. if EV's work great for you, that's fine... but if you are going to ask why somebody might not, let me elaborate on some details that I personally identify with.

If you *wanted* to drive 10 hours in a day, you are completely hosed with an EV. Owing to the fact that this is something I will do a few times a year, this is a significant factor. Also, I'm not keen on dealing with the hassle of having to arrange to rent a vehicle from someone else just for those occasions.

Again, speaking for myself, I couldn't even charge an EV where I live because I live in an apartment building and there are no power outlets for vehicles in the building's parking facilities makes an EV a complete non-starter for me, even though I live in a pretty high-density population area and a commuter EV might otherwise be a good idea. EV's need fast and convenient recharging stations that are as ubiquitous as gas stations, and take no more tiime to recharge than it does to fill up (I can refill my 80L tank from empty to full in less than 4 minutes... which is at least 5 times faster than the amount of time it takes to recharge an EV on even the fastest charging systems).

Finally electric cars are priced much higher than gasoline-powered vehicles. This makes financing more difficult, and the difference is not even compensated for by the money that you save on gasoline until you have been driving it for many years. If you have financed the car, the money you are spending each month on paying for it can exceed what you would have otherwise spent buying a new gasoline-powered car of about the same size *PLUS* the cost of gas, only adding to the total time it takes to start to see any savings.

Basically, for myself the choice to not get an EV just amounts to nobody making an EV just as convenient for me to own as an gas-powered car, if or when someone can do that, I'm sold.

Comment Re:It's about landmass (Score 2, Insightful) 455

Even if you are using coal-power to generate electricity, said power plant is stationary, and because it is generating very large amounts of power, the amount of pollution you would be producing at such plants would be substantially less than the total amount of pollution produced by millions of moving vehicle. It is comparatively easier for governments to legislate environmental controls on companies that produce power in that way than it is on private individually owned vehicles as well. Plus, if there is already a good electric vehicle infrastructure. cleaner energy production measures can always be employed as they become more cost efficient, and the heavier polluting systems phased out, resulting in a *far* greener and more sustainable vehicle technology.

Comment Re:If the form factor is tablet, then it is a tabl (Score 1) 114

So it's not a typical tablet computer... there's nothing wrong with that, but the entire notion of calling something a tablet computer in the first place comes from what such a computer LOOKS like, not what it might do. Tablet means a flat slab, and if it looks like a tablet, then it is a tablet, by definition.

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