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Journal TechnoLust's Journal: TL in a house with 4 cute women. 38

Journal by TechnoLust
Before I get to the main subject of this JE, I'm reminded of a conversation I had with GMontag when I met him. He said something along the lines of Bethanie had said I was a cute guy, but he didn't know, because he didn't know what a cute guy was. I disagree with that. I think a lot of guys won't say that another guy is cute for fear that someone might think they are gay. I can look at a guy and tell you if women find him attractive or not. So, I can say that a guy is cute, and it does not mean I'm attracted to him. The reason I'm writing all this now, is that I can also say that about a girl. A girl can be very pretty, but there can be something there that prevents me from being attracted to her. Most of the time it is her attitude, and sometimes it is a large age difference. I see many older women that are very attractive, but I'm not attracted to them because of the age difference. I also see girls that are too young for me, and notice that they are attractive, or can see that they will be when they are older, but I am not attracted to them, because they are too young. As I said, this has relevence to the story, so let's get to it.

Sunday night, KW invited me to her house. She is 38, divorced, and has a 16 year old daughter LaW who is engaged to an 18 year old that just joined the army. KW has a sister HM who is 20. (Big family.) HW lives with her mother (LiW) who is in her 50s. All four of these women are very pretty. LiW and HW are blonde, KW and LaW are red heads.

As Bethanie will attest to, I am an affectionate person. I wanted to hug her when I saw her, but I was going to wait to see if Hubby was going to be weird about it first. Fortunately for me, I didn't have to worry, because as soon as Bethanie saw me she hugged me. I was very relieved. My church is like this as well. We have a time during the music, when everyone gets up and walks around greeting people. Many people shake hands. A lot of us hug. I know who I can hug and who it would make uncomfortable. Several men there would be uneasy if I hugged them, so they get a firm handshake and a pat on the back. Some of the women that have been hurt by men* are trusting until there is physical contact, so some of the women I only shake hands with. Obviously I don't know everyone in the church, so I go to people I know. When I first saw KW at church, I didn't know her or anything about her. I appreciated her beauty, but because of the age difference, I wasn't attracted to her. I knew* she was an affectionate person, so I went up and gave her a big hug. Shortly after that, she started coming to our small group on Wed nights, and brought LiW (her mother). I hugged LiW, too, and found out the whole family is very affectionate. They hadn't been there many weeks and one Wed, KW's cell phone rang and it was LaW. She had been baby sitting for another small group and it was over and she needed a ride over to where we were. Since I was the last one in, KW asked me to go pick her up. That made me feel good that she trusted me enough to send me out to pick up her cute 16 year old daughter. So I did and LaW and I hit it off and talked the whole way back. She's a sweet girl and her boyfriend is a great guy (I met him later). Again, there's no attraction there because of the age.

I didn't meet HW until later. She came to a PowerPoint class I taught at the church one night. I saw her sitting with LiW and could tell they were mother-daughter. I was definitely physically attracted to her, but she has all these walls up, spiritually and emotionally. I can tell she hurts, but I can't tell about what or anything about her, I just didn't get anything from her, she was hiding it so well. So that was the last time I really interacted with her before Sunday night. She saw me at a restaurant one night with MA (the girl from the hot tub), but she didn't come over and say anything. Actually she and MA went to school together. She also went to school with some of the people that lived in my house during college. Small world.

SO... Sunday night KW invited me over for dinner and to play cards. She was making chicken, so I took some Echo Domani Pinot Grigio. (It's pretty good for an inexpensive wine, and it was nice to be with people that I go to church with that feel the same way about drinking as I do.) LaW was there of course, and LiW and HW came over. We also invited a guy that's my age from church and a guy that's KW's age that are part of the Celebrate Recovery** ministry. The guy that is KW's age brought his 17 year old daughter.

I arrived before the other guys and the 17 year old, so I spent about 30 minutes with the 4 women that are related. I was able to talk to HW and she started warming up to me and letting some walls down, expecially after we found out we knew some of the same people. Of course, I started going into my normal flirt mode, and she flirted back. We had a good time, but she's not where she needs to be spiritually. She's been hurt, so she won't let anyone close, not even the church (Her father died when she was 15 and he was a minister, I'm wondering if that had something to do with it.) The guy that is my age called and said he couldn't find the house, so HW and I went to meet him at a nearby grocery store. When we came back he ate and then we started playing cards. KW asked me to get my CDs from my car and put some music on. I put on a mix CD I made that has some cool techno on it. And then it has some Burt Baccurac and Elvis Costello on there, too. When the techno was on, HW said, "You like techno?" I said yes, and she said she did too. When "Raindrops keep falling on my head" came on, she told me that was one of her favorite songs. We had a great time and she gave me her cell phone number and I gave her mine. She told me to call her anytime. She sat beside me on a bench while we played cards, and there we three of us on the small bench, so she was very close. She's a big Marylin Monroe fan, so if I ever want to get her a gift, I know anything with Marylin will go over well. She used to model when she was in high school, and some people call her Barbie, because she looks like a Barbie Doll, except shorter and she actually has a waist.

Ok, here's the thing though. I don't want to date her. I loved flirting with her, but I can tell she's the type of girl that likes to get men to like them just so they can manipulate them. She smokes, which is a turn off. I really do like her, and I loved flirting with her. The truth is, if I'd never met CR, I'd probably be calling her tonight and trying to get her over in the hot tub. The thing is, since I've gotten to know CR, I don't want anyone but her. I can't be with her right now, and I'm a flirt by nature***, so I still flirt a lot but I'm really not trying to find a girlfriend. LiW has really been trying to get me to spend time with HW. I guess she thinks I'll be a good influence. And I plan on becoming friends with HW, but that's as far as I want it to go. The main reason is CR. Even though we haven't made a commitment to each other, I feel like I would be stepping outside of God's will to get serious with anyone else until I know what's going on with CR. Also, I'm afraid if I let myself have feelings for HW, she might be able to manipulate me. I know she has had sex (I could tell when I met her, but it was confirmed in conversation later.) and she knows I haven't, so it isn't too much of a stretch for me to see her trying to get me to sleep with her, if for no other reason that to prove her attractiveness****. And while I know I could resist, it would be the hardest thing I've ever had to do, and I don't want to put myself in that position. So, I think if I don't let it go any further than friendship, we can still hang out and flirt and have a good time, and maybe I can help her get over whatever hurt her that is keeping her from coming back to church.

I don't know where this is all going to lead. I invited her to Bible study last night, but she had a Sorority meeting. I told her which Sorority I thought she was in, and I was right. It was AZG, which is the sorority that most of us SigEps dated girls from. The SPEs and the AZGs were always close. I'll keep you guys posted if anything interesting happens. :-)

* This gets into religion, so if you don't want to hear it, don't read this part. One of my spiritual gifts is counselling. As part of that, I can get a feel for the type of person someone is and what problems they might have, which helps me know how to approach them. Some of the women I get a sense or not trusting of men, so I have to be careful around them. With KW, I knew that she is an affectionate person.

** More on this later.

*** Actually, KW nailed it. We were talking about how much alike we were, and said, "You just love men. It's not always a sexual thing, or anything like that, you just love to be around men." She said, "You're right, I've never thought about it... and we're alike, because you love women!" She's right. I love being around women, not just girls my age that I want to date. I have several friends that are older women. I just like being in the presence of females.

**** Before some people get their undies in a bunch... I DO NOT think that every woman is out to get me in bed, and I can't be sure that HW would be either, but as I said, it wouldn't be much of a stretch, because I can tell she's attracted to me, and she's a sexual person. She also admitted she gets bored easy and loves a challenge. So getting me to have sex with her would be a challenge. I'm just pouring out all the things that are my impressions, so don't jump to conclusions and think this is what I think about all women.

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TL in a house with 4 cute women. More

TL in a house with 4 cute women.

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  • ...to hate your headlines. Article too long, so I didn't read it. Perhaps later, when not at work.

  • Well, that clears things up... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Some Woman ( 250267 ) on Tuesday September 30, 2003 @11:44AM (#7094483) Journal
    ...the girl from the hot tub...

    Reminds me of the time I used a parking ramp as landmark in downtown Minneapolis. =0)
    • I think. :-) The one that I kissed for several hours. But I see your point. Now you see why I give initials. Protect the innocent(?) and all that.

  • Hmmm... interesting... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Liora ( 565268 ) on Tuesday September 30, 2003 @11:59AM (#7094644) Journal
    ...Depending on what kind of problem those people were recovering from, I'm not sure I would put alcohol in front of people in Celebrate Recovery. Several years ago, when I was involved in my church's version of it, there were three main types of recovery groups, one was substance abuse, another was sexual hurts, habits & hangups, and another was codependence. I tend toward the cautious when it comes to such things b/c although it is possible to have just one kind of problem, most people that walk into our program could go to any of them, and then just have to pick one based upon what they struggle with the most.

    I'm glad that you're still into CR. I don't want to see you get mixed up with someone that will be a bad influence on you. Not that HW necessarily would be, but because the prospect is there, it is probably wise to be careful. That and if she's 20, if you ask me, she's too young for you.

    I think that the +2/-2 rule is good, making concessions for slight differences beyond that where God indicates it's all right, but in general, that's the way I think it should be, excepting perhaps when you've aged 10 years or something. That's not to say the one God made for you won't be 5-8 years younger than you... that's just to say it's highly unlikely.

    Hey, can I tell you something that might blow your mind. My pastor and my fiance, before we started dating, were sitting in a pub one night speculating on Christian dating. They hypothesized that among the sample of all Christians, roughly 30-50% of the opposite sex is compatible with any given person. Funny enough, at the time, I was thinking on my own that pretty much any Christian woman could date pretty much any Christian man. Of course, now that I've found shimmin, I'll tell you that God has someone specific in mind for each of us, but that doesn't necessarily exclude the possibility that such a 30-50% freedom exists....
    • I'm not sure I would put alcohol in front of people in Celebrate Recovery.
      These are people that are leading Celebrate Recovery, and none of them have alcohol problems. We had discussed it prior to this night.

      I'm glad that you're still into CR... if she's 20, if you ask me, she's too young for you.
      Don't forget, CR is 20 also. But it's amazing the maturity difference between CR and HW. HW does the "little girl voice" when she's trying to be extra cute and when she answers the phone. It's very cute,

    • I had some guys @ a prayer group tell me how to figure out the age ranges. I only share this for the sake of a small chuckle. I can't remember the exact details.

      You take your age, divide by 2, then add 7. That's the youngest that you can date. So, according to this formula, the youngest I could date is, 22 [(30/2) + 7 = 22].

      For the oldest, you would do it the other way around. Take your age, subtract 7, multiply by 2. The oldest that I could date is 46 [(30-7) * 2 = 22]. Yippee-ee-ee!

      Methusala [correct s
      • I usually try to restrict to +/- 5 years, but I've done as much as 7 years younger. (I'm 25, she's 18.) That didn't last long.
        • Yeah, I think that just doing stuff casually with girls that far apart is okay, but I wouldn't hope for a meaningful relationship with anyone less that 23 or 24. In western cultures, there's a world of difference between college aged girls & women who have matured out of it. It works the same way when we compare high school girls & college girls. It has a lot to do with the culture. In other societies, it age is probably more insignificant.
      • Youngest you "can" date? I guess the fact that my wife and I have been together for 10 years (from when we started dating) and she was 2 years younger than my "youngest" number from that formula at the time doesn't count then? :-) (and for the record yes, she was above the legal age at the time)
        • I think it's a set of very loose guidelines... It obviously depends on the people involved. But I won't date anyone under 18, no matter how "mature" they are. ;-)
          • Which is a safe bet for legal limits as well. For the record she was 19. :-). I was mostly amused at the way it was stated as if one couldn't date someone older/younger.....
        • I guess the fact that my wife and I have been together for 10 years (from when we started dating) and she was 2 years younger than my "youngest" number from that formula at the time doesn't count then? :-)
          :^) Well, like I said, it was only meant to give a good chuckle. I agree with you.

          I guess the question that I would ask people is not, "Can you make it work?", but rather, "Will you make it work?".
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Before I get to the main subject of this JE, I'm reminded of a conversation I had with GMontag when I met him. He said something along the lines of Bethanie had said I was a cute guy, but he didn't know, because he didn't know what a cute guy was.

    More like I have given up any claim to know what a "cute guy" is. When chicks go all loopy over George Clooney I am clueless, is one example. I use Clooney as the example because that was the point where I realized my cluelessness. Your case fits the rule :-)
  • I think a lot of guys won't say that another guy is cute for fear that someone might think they are gay. I can look at a guy and tell you if women find him attractive or not. So, I can say that a guy is cute, and it does not mean I'm attracted to him.

    My sister and I do this all the time. We'll be walking around the mall and talking about all the cuties (men and women) that are around. Combine that with watching Oprah and cooking.....I must be flaming.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Well, I've never really been able to sit through a musical. The idea that characters step out and sing, like operas, isn't for me. Leads to some of the most beautiful music, but I'll just buy the CD.

        So...No meetup between us, okay? ;)

        For some reason, thoughts of two guys squealing comes to mind....um....no. Besides, CO is one of those states where I can't visit. There was some unpleasantness.
  • who can use them!! *sigh*

    Not that i'm into christian women when i know so many nice pagan ones. But i'm a terrible flirt- in the sense that i'm bloody awful at it!!! I'm direct and i'm curious, and i invariably end up stunned as they date someone else. Well, not stunned anymore, i guess. And i finally got the best friend who would date them to stop doing that so i'd at least have a chance.

    good thing i'm comfortable with my philodendrons and no human companionship!!!

    So, shall we auction off the parts of TL's life that he's not using? I've got dibs on the hot tub, which i'm taking away for pagan rituals. :P yeah, i know you're using it, TL, but i could use it more. Tell ya what, you can have a philodendron in exchange...

    No? *sigh* you never let me have any fun....

    • I've got dibs on the hot tub,
      I've already offered to let you use it, provided I'm the one in there with you, what more could you want? ;-)

      no human companionship!
      Is that a hint I need to call/write more often? ;-)

  • That made me feel good that she trusted me enough to send me out to pick up her cute 16 year old daughter.

    That's a good attitude. I wouldn't have looked @ it that way. From now on, maybe I will if I get into those types of situations. I speculate that being positive is also being proactive. It's always easy to see the cost, but not necessarily the benefit.

    I was able to talk to HW and she started warming up to me and letting some walls down, expecially after we found out we knew some of the same people.

    I don

    • When I talk of walls, I'm talking of emotional walls. As in she won't smile or laugh or get into an in depth conversation. It's just being polite enough so that you aren't considered rude. When people are like that they are very hard to read.

      What brought you to that conclusion? What things did you see, etc.?
      The highly flirtatious nature, the fact that several guys were calling her and she was talking to them all like they were 'the one'. And just her general attitude. She used to be engaged, and the

      • I had a friend in college that used me as a litmus test for her boyfriends. She would introduce them to me and then afterwards I would tell her my impressions. I can't remember ever being wrong about any of them,

        My brother's wife is like that. My brother says that she's been right about everybody except for 1 or 2 [it could have been everybody, but I can't remember what my brother said]. 1 thing that really convinced me is the background of when my brother told me. He went through an extremely difficult tim

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