Comment Re:Of course, Smaller ISP = Car Salesmen (Score 1) 169
Its bread and butter time for the smaller ISPs, they almost live month to month when they first start out they cant have a burn rate.
This is untrue. The company I work for started small. We got investors who gave us money due to the solidity of our business model and plan.
Starting at a small BBS turned ISP (cet.com [cet.com]),
This is one case. I know several companies that started small.
I seen how the owner would sell a full T1 and split it a dozen ways,
This is common practice, ALL ISPs do this.
scam customers on software packages,
The term SCAM is largely perception based, what you consider a scam, I may consider a good deal.
replace broken hardware that wasnt broken.
As a former technician, I have on several occasions replaced equipment I knew was perfectly functional in order to rule it out as a point of failure. I notice you didn't indicate that he charged for such replacement.
I moved onto another ISP, and saw how the salesmen reminded me of car salesmen, "Let me talk to the manager..."
All salespeople do this to one degree or another. I do it. Our company has certain discounts we are allowed to offer to a customer. I have to call and have every one approved. If I don't, they turn it down. This is not bad salesmanship, this is a fact of sales. Have you ever gone to a garagesale and offered some money for something and have the guy say, "Let me ask my wife." This is the same thing. Sometimes we need to defer to others.
People dont see whats going on behind the scenes, how the young kids are working thier ass off to keep the servers up cause they cant hire professional admins.
Again.... This is a single case. The company I work for only hires certfied engineers for our service department.
The systems are always having outages and they blame the larger telcos as a "network problem..."
Who's to say that's not a problem? I was a technician for PrimusTel in Canada and 99% of our problems were as a result of Bell Canada having problems. We occasionally had our own issues but it was mostly Bell.
That was my biggest problem, I couldnt stand being dishonest to a customer, and you cant be a good salesmen without bending the truth, spreading on the bullshit like butter. Even with a good product, its thier job to sell or they dont eat.
I am outright offended at this. I am one of the leading salespeople in my company. I have NEVER lied to a customer. EVER. If you were incapable of selling your product without telling lies, then either you didn't believe in your product or it was garbage. I have lost sales as a result of telling the truth. My boss is OK with that. When I started here, I explained that I have a reputation for honesty that I WILL NOT violate. I sell every service here with 100% honesty. If you are a liar, don't try to shuck your blame by trashing the profession. Incidentally, I make a good HONEST living.
Smaller ISP's have to cut costs too, I remember when all the ISPs in Spokane moved into the tel-west building so they could cut out the local exchange. Save 200 bux on federal taxes and transport fees. A T1 that costs 900 bux wholesale could be bought for 500, since all they had to do was run some cable down the hallway (overhead). Sell the T1 (frac) to 10 people paying you 300 bux, and they pay thier own costs, you could out bid. And then charge them for any hourly work needed. (You need help configuring your router? 10 hours billed)
I don't understand the point of this. It's called doing business.
Another reason ISPs needed to move into the telco buildings was the digital lines, to have the 56K v90 modems, the ISP has to have digital lines. I remember how everyone and thier brother was buying livingston port masters and running radius. Every ISP was the same, except for the modems on the end of the portmasters.
So what? Access doesn't sell, customer service sells. If you have two identical ISPs, the one with the better customer service will win out.
I think most slashdotters can confirm the shady side of the ISPs. How some run out of computer stores in the back, or BBS's that turned ISP. H
This is the same kind of logic that brings us bigotry. An ISP I work for was "shady", so all of them are. Doesn't sound too different from, "A [insert ethnicity here] person once stole my car so all of those people are "shady".
Hell, one of the most popular ISPs Eskimo [eskimo.com] here in seattle runs out of his living room. When I moved over here to this side of washington state, I went over and met the guy. Typical homegrown ISP, but this guy has shitloads of customers.
Again... your point? Does he provide the service he promises for a price that his customers are happy with? He must be. Good for him and his successful business. Who cares where it's run from.
Been there done that, now I work for a major wireless telco, millions of customers, and I never have to be shady. Drawbacks? Less ownership in the product. I get paid, but I dont make the choices. Management and Marketing does. Sometimes I just shake my head and say "Umm, if our stockholders only knew....)
Hmmm, sound dishonest to me.
Someday Im going to start another business, and try to keep the "mom and pop" attitude. Actually sell what the customer wants, and give it to them. Only thing stands in my way, People are cheap. (-;
What a good way to end the post, a statement that contradicts the rest of your argument.
This is untrue. The company I work for started small. We got investors who gave us money due to the solidity of our business model and plan.
Starting at a small BBS turned ISP (cet.com [cet.com]),
This is one case. I know several companies that started small.
I seen how the owner would sell a full T1 and split it a dozen ways,
This is common practice, ALL ISPs do this.
scam customers on software packages,
The term SCAM is largely perception based, what you consider a scam, I may consider a good deal.
replace broken hardware that wasnt broken.
As a former technician, I have on several occasions replaced equipment I knew was perfectly functional in order to rule it out as a point of failure. I notice you didn't indicate that he charged for such replacement.
I moved onto another ISP, and saw how the salesmen reminded me of car salesmen, "Let me talk to the manager..."
All salespeople do this to one degree or another. I do it. Our company has certain discounts we are allowed to offer to a customer. I have to call and have every one approved. If I don't, they turn it down. This is not bad salesmanship, this is a fact of sales. Have you ever gone to a garagesale and offered some money for something and have the guy say, "Let me ask my wife." This is the same thing. Sometimes we need to defer to others.
People dont see whats going on behind the scenes, how the young kids are working thier ass off to keep the servers up cause they cant hire professional admins.
Again.... This is a single case. The company I work for only hires certfied engineers for our service department.
The systems are always having outages and they blame the larger telcos as a "network problem..."
Who's to say that's not a problem? I was a technician for PrimusTel in Canada and 99% of our problems were as a result of Bell Canada having problems. We occasionally had our own issues but it was mostly Bell.
That was my biggest problem, I couldnt stand being dishonest to a customer, and you cant be a good salesmen without bending the truth, spreading on the bullshit like butter. Even with a good product, its thier job to sell or they dont eat.
I am outright offended at this. I am one of the leading salespeople in my company. I have NEVER lied to a customer. EVER. If you were incapable of selling your product without telling lies, then either you didn't believe in your product or it was garbage. I have lost sales as a result of telling the truth. My boss is OK with that. When I started here, I explained that I have a reputation for honesty that I WILL NOT violate. I sell every service here with 100% honesty. If you are a liar, don't try to shuck your blame by trashing the profession. Incidentally, I make a good HONEST living.
Smaller ISP's have to cut costs too, I remember when all the ISPs in Spokane moved into the tel-west building so they could cut out the local exchange. Save 200 bux on federal taxes and transport fees. A T1 that costs 900 bux wholesale could be bought for 500, since all they had to do was run some cable down the hallway (overhead). Sell the T1 (frac) to 10 people paying you 300 bux, and they pay thier own costs, you could out bid. And then charge them for any hourly work needed. (You need help configuring your router? 10 hours billed)
I don't understand the point of this. It's called doing business.
Another reason ISPs needed to move into the telco buildings was the digital lines, to have the 56K v90 modems, the ISP has to have digital lines. I remember how everyone and thier brother was buying livingston port masters and running radius. Every ISP was the same, except for the modems on the end of the portmasters.
So what? Access doesn't sell, customer service sells. If you have two identical ISPs, the one with the better customer service will win out.
I think most slashdotters can confirm the shady side of the ISPs. How some run out of computer stores in the back, or BBS's that turned ISP. H
This is the same kind of logic that brings us bigotry. An ISP I work for was "shady", so all of them are. Doesn't sound too different from, "A [insert ethnicity here] person once stole my car so all of those people are "shady".
Hell, one of the most popular ISPs Eskimo [eskimo.com] here in seattle runs out of his living room. When I moved over here to this side of washington state, I went over and met the guy. Typical homegrown ISP, but this guy has shitloads of customers.
Again... your point? Does he provide the service he promises for a price that his customers are happy with? He must be. Good for him and his successful business. Who cares where it's run from.
Been there done that, now I work for a major wireless telco, millions of customers, and I never have to be shady. Drawbacks? Less ownership in the product. I get paid, but I dont make the choices. Management and Marketing does. Sometimes I just shake my head and say "Umm, if our stockholders only knew....)
Hmmm, sound dishonest to me.
Someday Im going to start another business, and try to keep the "mom and pop" attitude. Actually sell what the customer wants, and give it to them. Only thing stands in my way, People are cheap. (-;
What a good way to end the post, a statement that contradicts the rest of your argument.
