3D Computer Network Maps 52
beebware writes: "According to this article on C|Net, Tim Bray (co-inventor of XML) has launched Antarcti.ca which renders computer networks in 2 and 3D maps. It's currently running a demo off the ODP data. But will it take off? Will users really like 'country-maps' opposed to listings? (Incidentally Tim used to be vice-president of production at Yahoo! so I think we can tell what his money's on.)"
Re:Illogical information (Score:2)
- Arbitrary mapping of categories to unrelated geographical space. e.g. "Computers" => "Northwest corner of Antarctica". This fails to take advantage of everything users already know in terms of information categorization, alphabetical listing, etc. It also forces users to memorize the random placement of categories, rather than having the computer do that (by logical organization).
- Difficult to read interface. Having bullseye targets, text hyperlinks, a variety of region colors, black region boundaries, and a white grid all makes for a confusing and difficult-to-read interface. It was just too busy. It was necessary to intently study the sub-maps to try and find something, in contrast to Yahoo where I can quickly scan a simple text list and quickly find what I want.
I'm hesitant to dismiss others' technological visions, since I'm usually wrong, but this interface concept seems doomed from the start. It throws out almost everything known about user-interfaces. It also forces users to mentally organize and memorize a random list instead of having the computer do that and then give users a sensible list.
I hope they prove me wrong, but with Google's great searching and Yahoo!'s convenient categories, why would I want to memorize an arbitrary "Antarctization" of the internet?
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D. Fischer
Re:Only works with MS Internet Explorer. (Score:1)
Hey, if they manage to come out with something really cool and useful, more power to them. What I saw in that office, amid network outages, system and browser crashes, and immense egos, was that it was pretty unlikely going to happen.
TheGeek
Re:Woah! (Score:1)
Don't take it personaly, pal.
Re:Woah! (Score:3)
Have you not seen Jurassic Park? Apparently you didn't get the oh-so subtle reference.
Grab a clue before you post crap like this.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Question for the Antarti.ca staff (Score:2)
Why?
I'm not trying to be a jerk either. But I have to wonder, with the likes of Yahoo!, Google, et al, why is this better?
Granted, the idea of web indexes is important. The idea of 2D/3D maps of what are essentially semantic networks is somewhat cool too. (Tony Buzan's "mind" (idea) maps come to mind.) But were those two combined aspects enough to justify the (probably substantial) expenditures that were put into this?
What are you hoping to achieve?
Please think about your answer. I have already seen the "Why map.net?" clip on your site (Answer: "Because it's fun").
You'll notice the rather anemic levels of slashdot postings on this story. I think this item has bewildered more people than just me, so your answer may help spark our imaginations.
Re:Question for the Antarti.ca staff (Score:1)
In any case, "Why?" isn't really a question I can answer terribly well from the angle that you seem to be asking it. I'm working on it because it's given me a chance to play with some technologies (web clustering, etc) that I wouldn't get a chance to at my previous job (university sysadmin). I think the product is interesting, and the 2d aspects something that I might even use. I'm not personally convinced the 3d is more than a cute toy, but I'm willing to accept it may evolve into something more.
The party line is that we're trying to make the internet into a place, as people have lots of builtin wetware for spacial reckoning. But again, I'm a technical guy. I find the search and 2d parts useful and the 3d amusing. More useful and amusing than other sites? I can't say, but choice is usually a good thing, IMO, and sometimes you really can't know how well something will work until you try it.
Brian Edmonds, Antarcti.ca website operations.
Re:Woah! (Score:1)
This is getting a tad old.
Compared to dmoz and yahoo (Score:2)
interesting (Score:2)
The site uses the Open Directory Product Data but it does some fairly funky stuff with it. The graphs seem to be a pretty nice way of displaying the data. You can easily tell sizes of categories and how they relate to one another.
They seem to use some sort of data other than the ODP data. The size of the circles seems to indicate the popularity of the site. I don't know where they are getting this data. Maybe they are doing something like google and seeing how many links to the site there are. That information certainly isn't in the ODP data.
They are not using live ODP data and they seem to have stripped the site descriptions off. Also the pages seem to take about a minute to download and draw (I think its the drawing, not the slashdotting).
Maybe if they can solve some of those problems I would consider using it as a nifty way to browse the ODP....
Its not just a regional map. (Score:1)
Stock is cheap! (Score:1)
Re:interesting (Score:1)
You are very much appreciated.
Reeboot.... (Score:1)
Correction: Bray has no connection to Yahoo (Score:5)
Re:Woah! (Score:1)
>> I *KNOW* THIS!
That's the first thing I thought when I saw the story.
Woah! (Score:3)
I *KNOW* THIS!
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
This is NOT a gimick (Score:1)
A new search engine that uses a xerox of my butt as a map... [ridiculopathy.com]
Re:And the correct URL is... (Score:2)
Other ODP visualization projects (Score:1)
There are other visualizatin projects for the ODP that don't require as big a leap into a new interface and plugins.
One is http://www.webbrain.com/ [webbrain.com] which reminds me of a hyperbolic tree but is a little different in representing category information.
The other is a shameless plug for a visualization engine that I have created for the ODP that is almost ready for prime time. It doesn't really create a "map" of the ODP sites but it does show them visually as they will actually appear in your browser... it helps you quickly eliminate the wheat from the chaff when browsing the directory or search results. The URL is http://www.searchshots.com/ [searchshots.com]
Everything (Score:1)
Why do people always create new shit when there's good stuff like Everything2.net available?
Re:Only works with MS Internet Explorer. (Score:1)
A slight mix up... (Score:2)
Re:A slight mix up... (Score:1)
GOOD gopher-esque 3D network mapping (Score:1)
It's really a complicated 2D interface, but with the ability to open several subtrees at a time it could be very, very cool.
(Although the game one is organized by country, which I think many of us will agree is the Wrong Way to do things.)
--BS
Not very exciting (Score:2)
I have to agree with a lot of the reviews here. The map itself is not very exciting and it doesn't seem to add much value to the organization of information. In addition, it has a drawback in that it takes a lot longer to navigate through when compared to text only indexes. Plus everything was fairly cluttered and when I drilled down it came to a point where there was a labeled region and I couldn't figure out how to get into that region (it was alternative radio), although I could select the links in that region on the higher level.
One new interface that I have been impressed with is WebBrain [webbrain.com]. It's fast, exciting, and organizes and crossreferences information very well. I wish I had a project where this would make sense to use :)
But.. (Score:1)
Bray network visualization article (Score:2)
That was 1995. He's been doing this a while!
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Warning: 3d client requires reboot. (Score:2)
Just so you know what you're getting into.
----
Re:Woah! (Score:1)
Cheers,
Re:Xerox PARC already did this one (Score:1)
Yes, the /. traffic did expose some Apache configuration glitches that I'd not noticed before. Too bad we can't have you all come hit the site again, as I think the tweaks I've made should help it stand up much better next time around. :)
Brian Edmonds, Antarcti.ca website operations.
Re:Only works with MS Internet Explorer. (Score:1)
Yes, your network outages in the past were your providers fault. You were running an office on Rogers Cable @Home version as I recall being told.
Either way Brian, I don't have anything directly against your company or you. However the decision to release a broken product which only works on IE/Windows was a flawed one, most especially on Slashdot, where the general rule is "Support Linux". I wish you the best of luck getting this to be a workable product, though I doubt I'll know anyone who actually uses it as a search engine on any regular basis.
TheGeek
Re:Only works with MS Internet Explorer. (Score:1)
Heh. So all that software that runs on Linux only is broken because it won't run on Windows? Sure, I understand what you're saying, and I'm disappointed that we can't make it work on Netscape yet (having been a Linux-only user myself since 1992), but I think calling it broken may be erring a bit towards hyperbole.
However the decision to release a broken product which only works on IE/Windows was a flawed one, most especially on Slashdot
I very clearly recommended that we not make any effort to attract /. attention until we supported Netscape, for precisely this reason. I would have also preferred a bit more real-world load testing before getting the /. load...
In any case, SVG development is ongoing. It's an unfortunate reality in Internet time that things sometimes have to be released before we would prefer to, especially when there may be competitors working on a similar product, and being the first into any particular market niche is critical to a company's longevity. It's a balancing act between getting noticed first and not alienating too many people with things that are not yet fully developed.
Brian Edmonds, Antarcti.ca website operations.
Sounds like something... (Score:2)
Slight corrections... (Score:4)
Richy C. [beebware.com]
--
Some ideas..... (Score:2)
Is it just me or.... (Score:2)
Is it just me, or is that a bad link to the site?
And the correct URL is... (Score:2)
Antarti.ca [antarcti.ca] as in http://antarcti.ca.
--
All browsers' default homepage should read: Don't Panic...
Bad link. (Score:2)
Illogical information (Score:3)
Maybe I'm too used to my simple 2D windowed interface, but I like it. Its easy. I don't think I need another dimension. Perhaps they'll prove me wrong.
Xerox PARC already did this one (Score:1)
Only works with MS Internet Explorer. (Score:3)
Sorry!
The Antarcti.ca? client software currently only works with Internet Explorer version 5.0 or higher, because it requires 2-D vector graphics. We will add Netscape and Mozilla support as soon as the World Wide Web Consortium completes the standardization process for SVG.
Bleh.
Re:Multi-dimensional content maps (Score:1)
Some pages that are actually working... (Score:2)
Trying to get map.net [map.net] to come up, I stumbled across this directory [map.net]. (Nice when you don't set up your server to provide a default page...) Anyway, the two pages that I found most interesting are the help pages for 2D Navigation [map.net] and 3D Navigation [map.net]. Not really the same as being able to interact with the map, but I think it gives the general impression of what it is all about. I especially like the discussion regarding sizes and colors of buildings (near the bottom of the 3D page) -- fairly intuitive, though I would try to keep the colors more consistent between building types.
Shame about the dodgy link but... (Score:1)
4D maps? (Score:1)
Beware SVG... (Score:2)
If anyone knows of a suitable SVG plugin (for Linux x86) so I can keep using my Mozilla nightlies, I'd appreciate it.
Similar Computer Associates Product? (Score:1)
Good Visualization Enhances Good Data (Score:5)
Wile the Antarcti.ca idea is cool, and the design is visually attractive (at least, to me), I find that the presentation of the information could use some additional work. The sites that are listed are plotted as points on a map of "Antarctica" representing the Net - but the distance between points and their relative positioning does not seem to carry any particular meaning (at least, the sites I linked to from this site did not seem to have easily discernable traits which would make the distances meaningful)
The site is certainly attractive, but I think the integration of a system of text similarity measurement and positioning of the sites based on these metrics would greatly enhance the utility of the site (or, if this is already being done, it is not being done very well and needs improvement)
Also, the site will not be able to grow very large without a better notion of clustering based on some actually meaningful site comparison metrics (text similarity, google-like popularity measurements, etc.), since in order to have millions of sites on the map the idea they have implemented of moving around the map will need to be combined with some notion of places on the map having greater semantic meaning and also to reduce clutter, a more dynamic system of display which allows for better "zoom in / out" type functionality to "drill-down" into areas of interest based on representative, canonical sites that would appear on the high-level map.
All the beginnings are there, and it is a good start, I hope this goes somewhere...
By the way...
Anyone who thinks this field is cool, check out (if you haven't already) the books by Edward Tufte (I've put a reference at the bottom). And if you think you'd like to make some competing visualizations, check out this really great start-up data relationship viz tool company which my company is considering partnering with: www.thinkmap.com
----------------
Tufte's Books:
http://www1.fatbrain.com/asp/Search/SearchResul
and the inevitable question ensues... (Score:1)
Multi-dimensional content maps (Score:3)
One thing I'd like to see is the Internet represented as a multi-dimensional map where each axis represents a relevance to a particular subject i.e. technology, media, porn or whatever. Of course the rating and choice of axis would be somewhat arbitrary, but it would make for an interesting reference and perhaps allow for novel forms of searching based on a set of criteria e.g technology > 0.8 AND media > 0.1
Of course, who'd do all of this rating is another question...
grr (Score:1)
Not only is this completely useless, but the goddamned Adult section is not even active.
bah
Re:Illogical information (Score:2)
If you are considering moving to some other city, looking at a map to get camera veiws, business info, etc, around where you might live is certainly more intuitive than looking at search results.
If you are looking for all worldwilde thingamajig wholesalers, geographic data is mostly useless to you.