macrealist's Journal: Family Values?

I go to church every Sunday with my family. I am a liberal Democrat. The church is a Chinese evangelical church that my wife and her family are strong members of. I disagree with a few minor preachings of the church (gay rights, abortion), but generally think the values of family they "preach" are consist with mine. That was until this past Sunday, October 31st

It is not the church I would chose for my family to attend, but it is more important for my wife to go there than me to go to my church. So each Sunday I go, with my family. But last Sunday, with the election heavily weighing on my mind, something horrible happened. While I was hoping that politics would not be a main topic in church (and it was not), my sons (7 and 5) attended Sunday school. After church, we joined the others in the reception area, mingled, let the kids play and went home.

When we got home, my oldest son promptly announced that Halloween was evil and that he would not be participating, and asked me for confirmation of Halloween's evilness. I was taken by surprise, and shocked, and after discussing it with him, determined that the Sunday school lesson that day had been on the evilness Halloween. As a family, we always have celebrated Halloween. Many of my ancestors are Irish, and my great grandfather was one of the many that left Ireland during the potato famine and brought the traditions of the "Old Country", including Halloween, to America. As a kid, this was my favorite holiday, and as an adult, it is great to see the joy in all the children that are trick-or-treating. On this day, I have never seen, felt, or feared "evil". I've read stories of cults that have twisted the holiday to their needs, but that sure doesn't turn Halloween evil.

I had a fairly good understanding of the origins of Halloween. At the least, the holiday's origin's included practices promoted by christians (soul cake, Jack and the devil). At worst it was an event to ward of the spirit of the dead from taking over a non-dead persons, started over 4,000 years ago, that might have included burning a victim at the stake (also a christian practice, just not a good one). I talked to my son about the orgins of Halloween, and about good and evil. At seven we had not yet started an evil/good, black/white discussions with our oldest child. He is a very good kid, never in trouble, great grades at school. He is a model student, and has never "turned a card" in 4 years of grade school. He is very intelligent and is gifted in his logic/math talents and skills. And he was much too young to be discussing evil/good and why what some say is evil others say is not. After this open, lengthy discussion, he still declined to participate - and I supported him in this. My youngest and I carved the pumpkin and went trick-or-treating. My wife took the oldest to the church for pizza and games. The church's family values had split up my family on my favorite holliday.

So now I question the value of the values taught at this church. The concepts of evil and good are understood by my seven year old son, but being able to understand the facts and truly judge the nuances of evil and good are not. Brain washing is not a value that I consider good, and in no way was the information provided by the church either accurate or open for discussion. What type of values is this teaching?

So, if you have made it this far, I would really appreciate advise. I've considered all of the following, and don't know which to do:

Personally abstain from this church so that my children understand that I do not support all of the teachings at this church?

Force the whole family to go to another church?

Express my views to the church and provide information on the history of Halloween?

Attend the children's sunday school class and discuss the history of Halloween?

Do nothing and accept the fact that there is one more issue that my personal beliefs do not match that of the church I attend (not really an option I'm willing to take. This was the straw for me?)

Go back to your roots

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Forget evangelicals- they're plain nuts and support all sorts of wierd unchristian and anti-catholic theology that was invented in the last 500 years or so and cannot be traced back any further than that. Start working on your wife to get her to become Catholic and find a good Irish Catholic parish instead.

Re:Go back to your roots

[macrealist]

Tough to do. Her definition of Catholic is "people who worship Mary instead of God". Her family has been in this "church" since it was founded, and in the ancestors of this Church for generations. Nearly every member in every branch of this church in Tawain, Hong Kong, and the US knows or knows of her family. That (plus her own "wierd unchristian and anti-catholic theology") makes leaving this "church" incredible difficult.

I like the advise overall, though, and is the way I am leaning. Just not looki

Re:Go back to your roots

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Ok, from that route- my mother is ex-Methodist. I do know quite a bit about the Mainline Liturgical churches- certainly Methodist is far closer to the original Christianity than any evangelical strain is. Sounds like you're chained into an "unequal yoke" as St. Paul wrote, of a bit.

One thing you could try- though it's incredibly underhanded- is get a few books from the right-wing traditionalists at Catholic Answers. I don't have much use for them myself- especially after what they pulled during the elec

Re:Go back to your roots

[macrealist]

Sounds like you're chained into an "unequal yoke"

I think its more that my wife is chained because I am always on the edge of "believerness".

Not into the underhanded approach. My status in the church is such that I am an outsider or the token white, and would only be solidifying some stereotypes. Nor do I want to plant doubt in people's beliefs. I respect their beliefs and hope that they respect mine.

It might be usefull in the mean time to bone up on *why* your ancestors believed as they did
Pret

Re:Go back to your roots

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I don't have a lot of respect for Evangelicals. From my point of view, they've always been "Baby" Christians. With Bush's election they've now moved from the "persecution" stage that all new sects of all religions go through, to the "persecutor" stage- and they're about to become more intollerant of others than ever before. Denial of standard Christian holidays like All Hallow's Eve is just the begining; wait until they find out that Christmas replaced the Midwinter festival, for 12 days, including Candl

Re:Go back to your roots

[pudge]

Marxist Hacker obviously doesn't really know much about evangelicalism. Evangelical churches run the gamut, from those that celebrate Halloween and have hard rock concerts and even serve alcoholic beverages to adults, to those who only play organ music and say it is a sin to ever have a drink. And there's plenty of sane ones in between, though they are tough to find.

What I would do: talk to the church leadership and find out their position: often Sunday School teachers will say things on their own. If t

Re:Go back to your roots

[macrealist]

I know it seems like a frivolous thing, Halloween, but I also know it is about them teaching your children things you think are just wrong about fundamental things

Bingo. Talking seems the best path, but my clout is small, so looking for a viable next step.

Look Back on Calandar

[mercedo]

Irish, Gaelic, Nordic and Germans have got their own Gods and religions. There are many myths for each. Only your ancesters started believing Christianity after it was introduced and privailed. It was not until the coming of Middle Age that your people believed Christ was born on the 25th of December. Actually not. His date of birth was different. The 25th of December was the biggest festival for celebrating the longest night of the year. Only later on connected both most important festivals for your people

Re:Look Back on Calandar

[macrealist]

Agree totally. But it is in no way an un Christian like or an evil holiday. One can argue it is un Christian because it started thousands of years before Christ was born, but that is about it. Hard to make me believe that this makes the holiday evil, while Christmas, Easter, Chinese New Year, and Chinese Moon Festival are all OK in this church.

Re:Look Back on Calandar

[mercedo]

It's strange....Churches are where people gather, which often decide which festival should be held based on attendant's preferences, etc. What I think important thing is it's not you who serve religion, but religion that serves you. You mustn't serve your religion, instead religion has to serve you to fulfil your daily want. However there are some cases that you are serving in order to fulfil want in religion. In this case inevitably you sometimes feel unhappy. Why not re-think about your better relationshi

Re:Look Back on Calandar

[macrealist]

True. I am caught by my very strong personal belief that my family must be together in religion[1] and my wife's strong belief in the church we attend. I am at peace with my personal religious beliefs and general ignore the preachings of the church we attend. As MarxistHacker said, it is a sort of an "unequal yoke" that I've created. Not that I am a unbeliever, but at this church, I could easily be considered to be one.

I should have figured out sooner what was about to happen, when the church had more

Re:Look Back on Calendar

[mercedo]

Ok. There're two types of people. One is that can accept what they don't want to hold. And the other is that cannot accept what's against the grain. Seems to me you're the guy who cannot accept you disagree with. If you put value more on family ties, you relinquish your hope and desire to celebrate Halloween with your son. Because he has been taught he should not celebrate Halloween, and he's attending the church with you. It is natural for him to think you agree with what Sunday school

Re:Look Back on Calendar

[macrealist]

It's no where near that grave. I only need to find the right path that is right for myself and my family. My wife agrees with me in concept of most things. She is slightly more conservative than me, but we are very close and have strong ties. I consider my worst case path being continuing as is and talking candidly with my 7 year old son about my beliefs. I think, however, I will at least need to express my beliefs to the church leaders in an attempt to make them think before acting.