Journal insanecarbonbasedlif's Journal: I am Skeptic, hear me question. 12
A skeptic is one who prefers beliefs and conclusions that are reliable and valid to ones that are comforting or convenient, and therefore rigorously and openly applies the methods of science and reason to all empirical claims, especially their own. A skeptic provisionally proportions acceptance of any claim to valid logic and a fair and thorough assessment of available evidence, and studies the pitfalls of human reason and the mechanisms of deception so as to avoid being deceived by others or themselves. Skepticism values method over any particular conclusion.
~ Steven Novella, Skepticblog
Moo (Score:1)
It's amazing what spin can do.
Here's how it reads without spin:
Of course, it could be spun negatively as well
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Interesting point. Direction of travel will give us clues, though (it's the journey, not the destination.)
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Interesting point. Direction of travel will give us clues, though (it's the journey, not the destination.)
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by direction of travel. Could you clarify?
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Which is probably why I feel more "comfortable" here than most other online spaces. As geeks, we tend to have the luxury of being on the outside looking in by definition.
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actually striving (however futilely) for impartial objectivity
Hopefully not that futilely :) The advances of the last century should be proof enough that impartial objectivity can be achieved and is very effective in understanding the nature of the world.
On the other hand, I still don't have a car that drives itself...
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The problem with objectivity is that only the objectivist can decided that it is objective. IOW, whether something is objective, is a subjective decision. Oh, the irony.
I have to say, you're confused - from wiktionary:
objective
1) Of or relating to a material object, actual existence or reality.
2) Not influenced by the emotions or prejudices.
3) Based on observed facts.
subjective
2) Formed, as in opinions, based upon subjective feelings or intuition, not upon observation or reasoning, which can be influenced by preconception; coming more from within the observer rather than from observations of the external environment.
3) Resulting from or pertaining to personal mindsets or experience, arising from perceptive mental conditions within the brain and not necessarily from external stimuli.
4) Lacking in reality or substance.
6) (philosophy) and (psychology) Experienced by a person mentally and not directly verifiable by others
All that quoting to say, what makes objectivity actually objective is that everyone can test and see that it's objective. A large part of Science is the discipline of removing subjectivity from observation so that we can get closer and closer to the true nature of the physical world. Your statements tread heavily into the useless realm of post-modern relativism. If you wish to ascribe to a relativistic world-view, that is certainly your
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Wow, it is amazing how useless some dictionaries are.
Merriam-Webster has is correctly:
objective [merriam-webster.com]
subjective [merriam-webster.com]
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I'm not trying to say that objectivity is bad. I am trying to say two things. One, complete objectivity is impossible by us, as we are, by nature, subjective. Two, subjectivity is a valid form of observation and judgment, just not what Science chooses to use.
The skeptic, instead of praising objectivity, puts down subjectivity. Why is objectivity great, because its not subjective. That is a definition, not a praise. Each has their pros, and each has their cons. And each has their followers. Use what you want. But use it because it is your preference, and recognize that other may have opposing preferences.
I agree with you about some things, but, unless you simply overstated what you meant, I have to disagree with your premise. There are things that are completely objective, both abstract and concrete. For an abstract example, in base 10, 2 + 2 = 4. In a concrete example, water is composed of molecules made up of 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom. There are, you must know, a whole host of similar objective facts. If you, in seriousness dispute these two, and the facts like them, as being completely objectiv
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If you deny that there are things that we know that are completely objective, you have chosen a philosophical path that is, at best, misguided.
Or, i have chosen to understand the truth down to its finest point.
in base 10, 2 + 2 = 4. In a concrete example, water is composed of molecules made up of 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom.
Let's imagine i hypnotize the entire world and enlist an evil genie to help me. I make everybody believe that 2 + 2 = 5. The evil genie makes sure that every time someone takes tw
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Or, i have chosen to understand the truth down to its finest point.
I mean no disrespect to you by this, but having given the question of "What is true (or truth)" a lot of thought, I have come to a conclusion, in two parts.
First, knowledge is true when it accurately describes something. The accuracy of its description is tested and proven over time via other observations about what is true. This leads to both a reducing of truth, through the removal of faulty knowledge, and the expansion of truth, in an evolving and branching form, as other observations confirm so
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I made my point as simply as i could, you obviously read it and thought about it, and decided to disagree (the irony of it all is that i believe i explained subjectivity in an objective fashion, and you disagreed based on subjective feelings). The only replies i can think of is a rehash of what i already posted, which serves no purpose. As such, i have no further relevant input.
Thanx for reading and responding.
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The only replies i can think of is a rehash of what i already posted, which serves no purpose. As such, i have no further relevant input.
Thanx for reading and responding.
Fair enough, not everything can end in agreement - thanks for the discussion.