Journal Dannon's Journal: Torn up about the Episcopal Church 12
The Episcopal Church today is led by a Presiding Bishop who says that belief in Jesus as the God the Son, begotten before all worlds, being of one substance with God the Father, puts God in "a very small box".
The Atlanta Diocese of the Episcopal Church is led by a bishop who has said that the question of whether church doctrine is true or false is just a matter of opinion, that it's more important to have a popular opinion than an honest one, and by the way, any clergy under him who openly question his opinions will be kicked out of the church.
Oh, and if I criticize the Atlanta bishop's approval of Gene Robinson as bishop, people will automatically call me a homophobe. Even if my complaints aren't about his sexuality, but rather, about how politics overrode any other questions about his qualifications.
Long story short: I am no longer an Episcopalian. The overwhelming majority of the parish at St. Andrews-in-the-Pines has decided to sever ties with The Episcopal Church. We're joining the Convocation of Anglicans in North America, which is a part of the worldwide Anglican Communion as a missionary outreach of the Anglican Church of Nigeria. In doing so, we're leaving behind a beautiful church property. The church I've called home for about 2/3 of my life. The church where I worked on several Eagle Scout projects, including my own. The church where I was a wise man in the Christmas pageant one year.
It's been a tough day.
Sucks. (Score:2)
Sadly, it is the right choice to part company when you disagree on core issues of the faith.
I don't know a whole lot about the Episcopal church(s?) or the Anglican (RC, but a different pope?). In any case, I hope it cleaves closer to a faith tradition you can agree with.
Sucks.
Anglican/Episcopal (Score:2)
Just for clarification: Episcopalians/Anglicans don't have "a different Pope". There is only one Pope, whom our churches regard as being the legitimate Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of the West, and his name is Benedict XVI. We do not, however, agree with various dogmas from after the Great Schism around the turn of the millennium, including papal infallibility, papal supremacy, etc., so therefore we are not under the Pope's direct authority.
The Episcopal Church is the Anglican jurisdiction in the US. Conf
Re: (Score:2)
I recall there being something about a divorce and telling the Pope to piss up a rope.
Seriously, like I said in my original post, I know next to nothing of the Episcopal & Anglican tradition(s).
Other than the bit where Henry made the Church of England the state's established religion. Which I've only ever looked at in a historical/political framework, not a theological one.
Actually, I know very little of any of the modern sects of th
Re: (Score:2)
That's not the way I remember it, what with 'enery the 8th and all. I recall there being something about a divorce and telling the Pope to piss up a rope. :-P
Basically what happened legally at that point was Canterbury cut off ties with Rome, making the Church of England independent. Technically Canterbury could restore full ties with Rome tomorrow. Thus no new church was founded -- it was a schism within the church.
Later on Rome established a new loyal hierarchy in England, so now there are parallel
Sorry to hear it (Score:2)
Sorry to hear you're leaving, and I hope we can rejoin at some point, but I'm curious: Why choose CANA? To be frank, it strikes me as one of the worst options to pick from right now, considering some of the things the Church of Nigeria is up to lately. It's like going from one extreme to the other.
Personally, I'm not entirely happy with everything going on in ECUSA, either, but OTOH I don't really see any special reason to leave right now. (Granted being that I'm in an Old Catholic parish right now, remov
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know what CANA itself is doing in America, but I do know what the Church of Nigeria is doing.
For one thing, it is actively working for the passage of laws that practically forbid homosexuals in Nigeria from even coming into contact with one another [about.com], with hefty penalties if they do. Removing someone's right of assembly merely because of their sexuality strikes me as a tad...extreme. ++Akinola is known for being pretty homophobic, too. Whatever your opinion of gays in the church, his positions go fa
Not an easy thing (Score:2)
I still go to a Catholic church, despite being divorced. I do feel quite disconnected from the hierarchy these days, though. It's likely that I will end up somewhere else eventually, though that depends on some other factors.
Remember that the church is the people, not the building. The people that shared those experiences are still with you. The building is a memento, an accessory. I imagine that you will build
That's nuts (Score:2)
I was brought up Catholic, so there's a chance this notion doesn't apply outside that context, but isn't the veracity of church doctrine usually considered a matter of dogma [wikipedia.org]? It seems to me that if a church makes its beliefs a matter of personal convenience or preference instead of The Truth that all of its adherents are expected to follow,
Re: (Score:2)
See my reply to RW above. The basic thing about Anglicanism is that there are very few dogmas at all; the rest is left up to individual consciences, or at least is supposed to be.
The only requirement is to accept the Creeds (Nicene and Apostles) and the early ecumenical councils pre-Great Schism, and to use the approved liturgy (the Book of Common Prayer). Other than that, there are the Thirty-Nine Articles [anglicansonline.org] that supposedly define the basics of Anglicanism, but they are not actually binding. The Chicago-La [anglicansonline.org]
Re: (Score:2)
I was under the fresh impression that the Episcopals did not even have to believe in Jesus as Savior.
Untrue. Episcopalians/Anglicans are to accept the Nicene and Apostles' Creeds: "We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God..." and "I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord...". One or the other of those is said or