btlzu2's Journal: i'm on my way to jesus camp!!!!

yeah, our man from scandanavia mantorp reminded me that i'm going to jesus camp this weekend! WHO'S WITH ME???

I'd just love to threaten kids with guilt, fear, irrationality, and general bullshit. i wanna make them cry and permanently have psychological damage and believe in fairy tales!!! (not santa claus, that's OBVIOUSLY a crock. but, a perfect god creating perfect people who were really imperfect because they chose to eat from a tree that god didn't want them to eat from and could have easily had them not eat from the tree if he really didn't want them to. and a man that lived in a whale. and a part of god that is the same as god but different from god played the role of god's son and came down to earth for who the fuck knows why to die "for our sins" because we're not perfect even though god created us perfect had to go through these ridiculous things to make us feel guilty--um--to *save* us from our imperfect selves.

now all of those things are obviously true. Santa Claus? FUCK NO. i mean, we're talking about a fat guy that brings gifts to kids in a flying sleigh!!! That's too hard to believe.

has anyone seen this jesus camp thing? some evangelical female pastor runs it and says that she doesn't use guilt...i suppose that's why she was screaming to them, "Don't be like the other boys and girls and disobey your parents and listen to the DEVIL'S MUSIC!!!!" causing them to shake and cry with shame.

oh man, i'm SOOOOO SCARED for this country. no doubt it's slowly becoming the christian version of all the muslim countries people bash so easily. is this truly how things like nazi germany started? a build-up of brainwashing and emotional manipulation that finally targets children?

Nothing new under the sun

[rk]

They had some preacher guy come in to our high school (this was in 1984) and talk about the evils of rock music and drugs at our high school (and notably the only assembly in 4 years there that you weren't allowed to ditch by going to study hall instead). I think they thought they could get away with it because the preacher guy didn't actually preach religion, but did distribute tickets for a "City Wide Pizza Blast" where they in fact tried to preach the fear of God into us.

My friends and I went to it f

sorry to ruin your weekend

[Mantorp]

the movie was first endorsed by the World's creepiest man Ted Haggard [wikipedia.org] but now he's telling his flock (and it's a large flock) not to see it.

not the only way to think about jesus

[subgeek]

but you've got your way and i've got mine. your way works for you, so it doesn't have to work for me.

while i'm on it, your sig is sorta witty but misleading, and i'm going to pick a nit. if people believe in a god that is different than what someone else believes, it's not necessarily the same as being an atheist about their god. a physicist who disagrees with another about the implications of string theory, etc. isn't a disbeliever in physics, but a disbeliever of a specific part of someone else's belie

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[btlzu2]

i know there are many ways to think about jesus (you could just consider him a cool dude); however, i primarily think my beef has to do with fundamentalists/literalists. although, there does seem to be a possible logical case for sane moderates philosophically and in the psychological sense, "enabling" creationists by providing a moderate mask on top of that completely irrational and unbelievable belief system, i know that's not their intent.

i'm naturally skeptical, however, and i wonder even on a more rea

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[subgeek]

i was actually trying to concede that point. i picked something that is easily scientifically debatable, at least in places. i was nitpicking the use of "atheist" and nothing more.

my beef is probably also with the fundamentalists/literalists. they make it really hard for the rest of us.

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[subgeek]

i'm going to try to phrase my nitpick better. in order for someone not to fall into the category of atheist as defined in the quote from your sig, that person would have to simultaneously believe in all gods in which anyone has ever believed.

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[btlzu2]

that person would have to simultaneously believe in all gods in which anyone has ever believed.
ah, but therein lies the rub! it wouldn't make sense to do that because those gods are obviously and admittedly non-existent. that's precisely the point of the pithy little comment Dawkins made.

unless i'm still misunderstanding you--which is definitely a strong possibility. :)

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[subgeek]

oh i got the point of the comment from the start.

ah, but therein lies the rub! it wouldn't make sense to do that because those gods are obviously and admittedly non-existent.

sort of, but not exactly. since my belief is incongrous with those other beliefs, i can't believe them at the same time i believe the things i do. contact with those ideas might cause me to re-think what i hold true. it's a neat-sounding quote, but it seems to imply that if i disagree with someone else's concept of deity, i am fooli

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[btlzu2]

alright, i get more what you're saying. thanks for sharing it with me because it's difficult to understand where smart people are coming from when they profess a belief that's difficult to understand. i know it's considered a "private" matter, so it's probably not something you naturally would want to do.

it's also not like skeptical people or atheists don't understand the different levels and shades of emotions and tastes. (not that you're saying that!) as a matter of fact, for me, i now find so much mor

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[subgeek]

i guess i don't quite understand the connection between the concept of god and every person having different opinions and emotional lives.

i'm guilty of posting when i was really tired. i just meant that everyone has a unique experience that shapes their emotional self and their opinions. it is those feelings and experiences that shape a person's spiritual beliefs rather than the scientific method, because it is ill suited to making personal decisions of belief on things spiritual. i expect everyone's spe