pudge's Journal: Of Course People Vote Illegally

I am being told by many on the left that there is no massive voter fraud out there (well, not from THEIR side ... only Republicans would do such a thing!!!!!zomg).

But let's look at the facts.

FACT: it is very easy to fake a voter registration. Now, this is state- and county-dependent, but generally speaking, in most places, it's simple. One local WA woman registered her dog to vote, simply by calling the phone company and asking for a bill in her "son's" name, and using that as proof of residency.

FACT: it is very easy to vote once you have a successful faked registration. They do not check whether your registration is illegal once it is in the system. There may be an occasional check for dead people, or felons, or underage voters ... but if you are a fake person, they won't catch you, unless you make it very obvious, like using the name "Mickey Mouse."

Indeed, the aforementioned dog owner, Jane Balogh, was only caught because she wanted to be: she returned the illegal ballot voided, with a paw print instead of a signature. And they did catch her that way ... a year later, after she had returned three ballots that way.

FACT: many people in this world, in this country, are corrupt, and willing to break the law to achieve their own ends.

So if it is easy to register illegally, easy to vote with that illegal registration, and there are many people who would be willing to do all this, how is it rational to say that it doesn't happen?

It's not rational, at all.

Just because people rarely get caught means nothing: that stems from the fact that it is hard to catch it when it happens. You have to make it obvious, either by using paw prints on ballots, or popular names on registrations, or registering en masse with obviously fake and duplicate information like ACORN has.

I am not saying Obama is going to steal the election with this type of voter fraud. I am saying it is foolish to think it is not happening, and probably on both sides. It is a huge, mostly unchecked, gaping, security hole, with little chance of getting caught for exploiting it if you're smart. There's no reason why corrupt people wouldn't take advantage of it.

Cross-posted on <pudge/*>.

The flip side

[ces]

Is that it is very easy to disenfranchise people due to silly things if you go overboard with verification.

For example my Social Security Card, Passport, Driver's License, and Voter's Registration don't all match. The SS Card and Passport have full first, middle, and last name. My Driver's License has first, MI, and last. My Voter's Registration has first, MI (with a period), and last. Furthermore the address on my voter's registration doesn't match the address on my Driver's License (I've moved since I've

Re:

[pudge]

Is that it is very easy to disenfranchise people due to silly things if you go overboard with verification.

Of course. I've seen very few examples of going overboard.

For example my Social Security Card, Passport, Driver's License, and Voter's Registration don't all match.

I've never seen a system that would care about whether your middle initial or middle name is used.

Furthermore the address on my voter's registration doesn't match the address on my Driver's License (I've moved since I've last renewed).

I am talking about GETTING the registration, so that doesn't matter either.

I have no idea what address the SSA or State Department might have on file for me as it has been years since I've dealt with either.

They don't matter.

Now think of someone who recently got married and has changed their name.

Simple: when you provide your proof of citizenship with your DL, and it shows a last-name discrepancy, you also provide your marriage license or whatever. This is not hard.

I am not advocating, and no system has been implemented that would require, strict agreem

Re:

[multimed]

I've never seen a system that would care about whether your middle initial or middle name is used.

The Help America Vote Act (which went into effect for my state almost 3 years ago & our state elections board has chosen not to follow [wpri.org]) does in fact have a requirement that voter registrations be verified & consistent with other government databases. (Not the gas company or credit bureaus as ces seems to be implying above). Obviously states have automated the checking so such things as middle initial v

Re:

[ces]

(Not the gas company or credit bureaus as ces seems to be implying above).

I was just pointing out how common errors were and how difficult to correct they may be, not which databases might be used for voter verification. Though the gas company is relevant as in most states a utility bill can be used as proof of address.

Obviously states have automated the checking so such things as middle initial vs full middle name will get pulled aside. But my understanding is that they aren't automatically pulled from the voter registration files. A letter is sent out explaining the discrepancy and the voter just needs to respond that they are John O. Smith/John Oliver Smith and all is good. No response and the name gets pulled.

Depends on the state/county I think. Some places just seem to be purging anyone who gets flagged and not bothering to notify them.

I don't have a problem with the checking as long as it is done like you said with notification of the voter and plenty of time to corre

Re:

[multimed]

All the database checking is a kludge - all of that, all of it is completely unnecessary if we require photo ID.

Re:

[ces]

Three problems with that:
1. It requires voting in person or applying for an absentee ballot in person.
2. Possessing a photo ID is not proof of address, citizenship, or right to vote. Someone may have moved since their ID was last updated, non-citizens can get driver's licenses, and felons can have photo ID.
3. Not everyone has photo ID. While it may be hard for you or me to imagine, it isn't unheard of particularly among older folks.