pudge's Journal: Immigrants and Gall

I favor a path to legalization for immigrants. Even the illegal ones. I don't want to kick them all out: it would serve no serious purpose and would be impossible.

I wouldn't even be opposed to a path to citizenship. Yes, even for illegal aliens who otherwise qualify. They should not get access to such a path as easily as those who did not break the law, but still: even if I thought illegal immigration made you a terrible person, I'd still have to look at the big picture, which is that our country can best assimilate a large group of immigrants over time by making some of them fully participating members of society.

But I don't want to dwell on this: my point here is only that I am not some anti-immigrant zealot.

However, when you are here illegally, and you fly an American flag upside down, or tell me that you have a "right" to be in this country (whatever your reason is), or that I am bad for not making you legal (or a citizen!) immediately, that I am un-American for wanting some sort of control of the problem (and please don't tell me it's not a problem, I lived in California for almost 10 years), or that I am committing a "crime against humanity" by "persecuting" you when you break the law ...

When you have the gall to demand legalization or even citizenship, as though you are in any position to make any demands ...

Well, I get annoyed.

And I am even sickened these days just by seeing them carry American flags right-side-upw, because I am well aware it's a publicity stunt. Some of them mean it, but many of them realized last year all the Mexican flags looked bad, so now they are carrying American flags to get on our good side, and frankly, it has an opposite effect on me at this point, especially when I see maps of Aztlan alongside the flags.

Look. I don't mind you saying you want to be a legal resident or citizen. I want you to, too. But don't pretend you have the moral high ground here. Remember, you have no right to be here. You really don't. And you are here increasing my taxes, and you are doing it all illegally. You really are. Yes, I know you contribute positively, too: you are mostly wonderful people who work hard, and reduce the costs of goods and services, and just want to provide for your family.

I get it. I don't dislike you. But I am on your side here, and yet you stupidly alienate me with your nonsensical rhetoric that comes from the imagined position that you are being wronged. You're not being wronged. You have the opportunity to work and to earn, and you are prospering. And this is our country, and you are our guests, and we have every right to kick you out, and it would not be wronging you to do so.

But we aren't kicking you out. We don't want to kick you out. We want to make it work. But you make it harder to make it work by treating us like we are the problem.

How to stop/slow illegal immigration

[ces]

1. Go after people/companies that knowingly hire illegal aliens.
2. Put pressure on Mexico to stop using illegal immigration as a safety valve for their internal political/economic problems.

May not stop it entirely but it would greatly slow things down.

I would grant a green card to anyone from the following countries who can pass a background check:
EU, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Israel, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand. (possibly Hong Kong as well)

I would also give green cards to anyone from any country who:
1. has a bachelors or higher degree from an internationally recognized university.
2. who can pass the TOEFL test.
3. who can pass a background check.

Basicly I want to see free movement among the industrialized/developed countries (much like within the EU) and I want to encourage the educated (esp those who went to school in the US or Canada) to move here.

Re:

[pudge]

+1 MOD PARENT UP

Re:

[ces]

I doubt MH42 would agree with you, but he is a bit xenophobic (among other things).

can't deport?

[ChristTrekker]

I disagree that mass deportation is impossible. (Politically undesirable, yes. Physically impossible, no.) Moving that many people in a relatively short amount of time has been done before. (Sure, it was the Nazis, but the point is that it is logistically feasible.) I had some random thoughts on sensibly dealing with illegal aliens [livejournal.com] awhile ago, if deportation were removed from the table.

FWIW, I am opposed to legalization of the "undocumented workers". Reagan tried that in the 80s, and we see how well

Re:

[pudge]

I disagree that mass deportation is impossible. (Politically undesirable, yes. Physically impossible, no.)

First, I'd say it is politically impossible, not merely politically undesirable.

Second, I'd say that it is physically impossible because even if you surmounted the insurmountable political obstacle, you would civil disobedience and rioting on a mass scale that would make it physically impossible, too.

Yes, in theory, in the abdtract, it is possible. In practice, in this particular case, it is simply not possible. You would have millions of Americans blocking roads and trains and planes and boats and any o

Re:

[ces]

There are other reasons mass deportation isn't exactly a good idea. Most of the illegal immigrants who have been here a while and would qualify for any sort of "path to legalization" are people we probably want in this country anyway. Most of them have one or more citizen family members, many are homeowners, some are even business owners.

As pudge said mass deportation would be a political non-starter too.

Personally I'm for reasonably open immigration, but I want to keep it to a level the infrastructure and

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[pudge]

+1 MOD PARENT UP! :-)

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[ces]

Oh, and the President's Immigration bill was a good bill, even if I'm a little uncomfortable with the guest worker provisions (personally I think if you are going to let someone work here you might as well give them resident alien status)

I don't always disagree with The President or Pudge, just most of the time. ;-)