Journal pudge's Journal: Christians Who Hate Christians 10
Sister Joan Chittister is really nasty and hateful toward the "Religious Right." Apart from being nasty, she also has a completely muddled view of history. Check this out:
We have to choose now with whether or not we want religion, that is this thing that binds us together, that is somehow or other genetically wired in us, that, that Aristotle talks about, that all the churches talk about. Or do we want denominationalism. What, what church, what religion do we want? Do we want the religion of the Crusades and the Inquisition and the witch burnings and segregation and slavery and the oppression of women and Puritanism that led to Prohibition, that didn't last because it was somebody's creed imposed on everybody else's creed? Or do we want the religion of the peace movement that Jesus talked about, and the, the labor movement and the civil rights movement.
Except that the people behind slavery were specifically not the "Puritans"/evangelicals/"religious right." The "religious right" were the abolitionists, against slavery. And from the evangelical abolitionist movement rose the women's suffrage movement, too. And, of course, the prohibition movement.
Chittister tries to lump views together -- being pro-slavery/anti-women, and being for prohibition (or for the conditions that led to it) -- that were, in fact, on opposite sides. Charles Finney founded the modern evangelical/"religious right" movement in the 1800s (although at the time, they were basically on the left, of course). Finney's main cause was abolition, and that same movement grew to push other societal reforms, including women's rights and prohibition of alcohol. So were those people evil Puritans or peaceful followers of Christ and supporters of civil rights?
She talks about forcing creeds on people. Slavery was pushing somebody's creed on everybody else's creed. So was segregation, so was oppression of women, so was prohibition. But so was abolition. It just so happens that Chittister likes abolition -- as do we all -- so therefore she doesn't consider it "pushing" anything, but Finney and co. were all about pushing their creed on everyone else: some of it we like, some of it we don't.
History, unfortunately, does not fall into a neat little package as Chittister wants it to, with the good guys on one side and the bad guys on the other.
I thought the Quakers and the UCC were on the Left (Score:2)
I am pretty sure (at least from reading Quiet Rebels and Quakers in America) that the Quakers were pretty instrumental in Abolitionist and Women Suffrage movement as they didn't hold to seperating people on external things like race or sex. Women were leaders in the Quaker church from the outset, for instance.
The Quakers, in general, are a pretty lefty so
Re:I thought the Quakers and the UCC were on the L (Score:2)
Re:I thought the Quakers and the UCC were on the L (Score:2)
The point is not really where they were at the time, on the left or right, but that it was the same group of people who supported abolition, suffrage, AND prohibition. You're right that some of today's left-wing churches trace their heritage to these groups, and it
My favorite part (Score:2)
I happened to catch her on Sunday. I didn't necessarily disagree with everything she said, but I did catch this:
Re:My favorite part (Score:2)
The Reverend next to her was the serious voice of reason. He was totally on the ball, especially with his distinctions between judges and law enforcement and legislators. She was actually saying that it is inconsistent to hold a legislator (who is charged with MAKING law) to their beliefs, but not a prison warden (who is charged with IMPLEMENTING law). She was tot
... are the unhappiest Christians in the world? (Score:2)
Re:... are the unhappiest Christians in the world? (Score:2)
But I don't think those threatening schism necessarily hate anyone else. Sure, some of them do, as there are always people who hate other people. But they strongly believe, and with obvious good reason, that the Bible says homosexuality is sinful, and they don't want to belong to a church that asserts otherwise. Schism seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable remedy to the disagreement.
Re:... are the unhappiest Christians in the world? (Score:1)
This is a case of one man causing a schism for his own selfish and immoral behavoir (Romans 1:26). While I am not one to condemn a man, as it is not my place, I will easily say he has no place to be a teacher of any sort within the church while he persists in his public immorality. Additionally, he is divorced, which should also exclude him from the ministry, as he is far from reproach. So twofold he lives in public sin and does not repent.
Sister? (Score:2)
And why exactly do you give this woman the title she demands as "sister"? Is she your sister? She's certainly not mine.
Slavery was pushing somebody's creed on everybody else's creed.
So does abortion, for that matter, but I'm sure you've recognized that. For awhile I was going to have my signature read "Abortion forces your choice on the baby." But I think I never got around to using that one.
Re:Sister? (Score:2)
It's her title. Same reason I call the other guy Reverend, or the other guy Rabbi, or whatever. There's nothing implied more than that.