An "establishment voice"? Hardly. It all depends on what the facts are. In the controversy about the IRS engaging in political suppression (or repression) the facts are against the IRS. In the Snowden controversy the facts are against Snowden. The interest of the Slashdot crowd in the facts varies by topic. On Climate Change the demand for facts is vehement. On the IRS is it at best mixed. On the Snowden controversy the facts are generally ignored.

I was wondering if you could clarify something for me? If the new "patriotism" consists of stealing millions of Top Secret defense documents, spreading them around the world to unvetted people to be published in newspapers for the nation's enemies to make use of them instead of going to Congress with them, and the new "treason" is apparently trying to prevent your citizen from being killed en mass, how do we separate the new "patriotism" from the old treason?

We have different ideas about who the "scum of the earth" are. I place al Qaida and ISIS in that category. The are the ones crucifying children, taking women by the thousands as sex slaves, raping, torturing, murdering, and committing genocide. Those are the same scum benefiting tremendously from Snowden's massive theft and leaking of classified documents. You don't seem to have any particular opposition to al Qaida/ISIS, you cheer Snowden who has empowered them, and yet you show utter folly in your labeling of "scum." So for you I guess it's ok to rape the women, burn the village, and crucify the men, just so long as they don't offer any criticism of Ed the thief. You aren't one of the shining lights of our age.

Snowden won't come back if there is any chance of a fair trial. Both the law and the facts are against him.

Supreme Court upholds ban on 'material support' to foreign terrorist groups

---------------

I'm not sure that Snowden needs a defense fund at the moment since he is a fugitive from justice. He doesn't seem to be involved in any US logal proceedings at present. Seems like this could be just a slush fund.

The funny thing is that al Qaida, China, Russia, and Iran could say the same thing.

In short you like to stick it to "The Man" even if it's "The Man" that keeps the suicide bombers out of your gay pride parade or naked protest (a San Francisco thing). I'm not sure that will work out well in the long run.

I think it would be fascinating to spend an evening at the pub with you while you explain your thinking on this (over a few pints). Consider... During the Blitz, when German bombs were falling on British cities, who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or the ordinary Britons under the bombs? During the Troubles, when the IRA set off bombs in Britain, who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or the ordinary Britons near the bombs? During the 7/7 attacks who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or ordinary Britons near the suicide bombers? In coming years, when the Security Services are unable to read messages sent by those who plan to kill Britons, and as a result are unable to disrupt those plans as they have been able to in the past (resulting in many arrests and convictions), who is it that will be screwed? Will it be the British government or ordinary Britons near the bombs? Could you be one of those ordinary Britons?

Are your values such that it is ok for other ordinary Britons to be slaughtered en mass, just so long as it doesn't inconvenience you?

The security services are like a dam holding back waves of trouble. The head of MI5 has previously stated that they can barely keep up. That was before Snowden's theft and leaks had much direct impact. Now the leaks are having an impact and the security services are likely to be breached on a more frequent basis. When that occurs, who will be screwed? The dam holding back waves, or the Britons living "down stream"?

Snowden royally screwed Great Britain.

Speaking of royalty, as a patriotic citizen of the UK, can I get a "God save the Queen!" from you?

Shall we have Jerusalem ?

Our enemies are stronger because of Edward Snowden’s treacherous betrayal
Edward Snowden leaks have left Britain 'wide open' to terrorist attack warn spy chiefs

You apparently didn't comprehend much of what you read, or understand it in context. So called "LOVEINT" constitutes about 12 cases in 10 years. That isn't "common" in any meaningful way for an organization of over 10,000 people. Losing a security clearance means you aren't going to be able to handle classified information which means you can't work at an intelligence agency. People certainly were punished. How did you miss this?

Would you like to give up a months' pay?

The "seven times per day" incidents weren't LOVEINT, and as noted were "mainly inadvertent." That is things like making a typo in name or phone number queries resulting in bringing up the wrong information. (You don't make 7 typos per day, do you?)

You can help make the world a better place by trying to improve your poor character, giving to charity, and improving your reading comprehension. In the meantime I'll continue to try to provide good information and correct the ignorance and misconceptions of people like you.

Have a great day.

That's not "stupid," that's today's California.

You think that a major agency in the Department of Defense, headed by a 4 star General/Admiral, with a budget in the tens of billions of dollars that provides information to the President on a daily basis receives no oversight? And it can't figure out how to do log files and periodic audits?

You might be inhaling a little too much of that pixel dust.

Feel free to read the NSA IG's letter in this story:

NSA offers details on 'LOVEINT'

Let's review what I wrote:

And here is evidence:

Periodic Reinvestigations

The whole thing about Clapper is you trying to put words in my mouth, and falsely claiming that I'm a liar. You seem to be providing evidence that you have an integrity problem.

Tell you what, I'll throw you a bone on the Clapper thing since you can't be bothered to come to a deeper undersanding of Wyden's underhanded dealing on your own.

Clapper and Wyden: Scenes from a Sandbagging
Wyden’s Stunt Was Congress at its Worst

`

Anyone holding a security clearance is subject to periodic reinvestigation. Things are stricter at actual intelligence agencies, including the use of polygraphs. (Spare me the discussion on them.)

Ordinary commercial companies do things like log SQL querries, and perform audits. I would expect nothing less at intelligence agencies. Being discovered would only be a matter of time for comptuer misuse. Even Snowden's activites were detected although he managed to lie his way out of it helped by the nature of his job.

I'm pretty sure that losing your job and security clearance (for cause) counts as discipline, not 'discipline'.

So you think that the fact that individuals had a chance to cooperate with investigations and admit their wrongdoing implies that there was no other way they would be found out? You can believe that if you want to, I guess ....

Don't you think that ..... never mind. I keep forgetting that these posts really aren't about facts and reasoned discussion but rather about emoting, spleen venting, and the Two Minute Hate. Carry on.

Boooo NSA! Hissss! Teh Traiterz!

Both Crimea and Eastern UKRAINE were the occupied territory of a friendly nation. Russia conducted a war of aggression which began by inflitrating special forces to begin its military conquest. Putin has admitted this, and stated his willingness to threaten the use of nuclear weapons to seize Crimea. Should we also consider the rigged election that Russia held? Do you really want to go there?

That wasn't the case in the Falklands.