In my state, the answer is Very Definitely Hell Yes.

It is strictly illegal for anybody (including law enforcement without a warrant) to use ANY means to view something on your property that isn't clearly visible to a common pedestrian or vehicle going past. That means, for example, that it's illegal for anybody (including police) to so much as use a stepladder to see over your back fence. It is termed "illegal surveillance" and the law was in place long before drones existed.

It's even illegal to stare in my front window from the sidewalk, or with binoculars, even if my curtains are open. Same law. You can look in as you go past, of course. But you can't "watch" for a long time.

I guess I missed the sarcasm. I'm usually pretty good at picking up on it, but I slip occasionally.

No shit, Sherlock. That isn't, and hasn't been, anything I'm arguing about.

They'd just lose 80% of their business, not all of it. Duh.

I didn't say it was. But a surprisingly large chunk of it is. I don't think you realize how important that chunk is.

But isn't is supposed to work both ways? A news article about a black man beating a white man isn't automatically racist or discriminatory, either. Nor is an article about a gay person beating up a straight person.

The problem here is that the policy is apparently all about "misogyny", which makes it inherently discriminatory. The policy should be about sexism. Misandry is sexism, too. And there has been a lot of that around, too.

I don't think I'm the one being stupid here.

How? ON what basis? Apple is not based in China, and there certainly isn't any international law that would compel Apple to do so. You argue:

So you really think China would willy-nilly force Apple out of the country, and in the process (because they would have no choice) shut down some of their own largest companies, which make Apple products?

You really don't get it. Governments can't just do any old shit they want, and damn the economy. I mean, we know Obama thinks he can, and look at the mess he's made.

Even if it's not legally extortion (I think it is), it still violates the contract users have with their ISPs. My contract doesn't allow any such thing.

For Christ's sake, let's just make them all Title II Common Carriers and have done with all this bullshit. It might not solve everything but it solves about 95% of it.

Who didn't see this coming?

You're talking reason, which doesn't work in this context. They don't want to invest in infrastructure. Instead, they keep traffic slow on purpose, in order to create a fake "shortage" of bandwidth, thereby allowing them to charge more for less service.

It's typical monopolistic bullshit. And they get away with it because they're gigantic corporations that don't really compete in most of the U.S., because they have defined, doled-out territories.

Your argument makes sense in a free-market, business context. But it ain't a free market, and it ain't normal business. On the contrary, it has been government-collusion monopoly.

This is funny because every server I have worked on in the last 15 years -- and that means a lot -- has gotten regularly port-scanned and other penetration attempts from Chinese IP addresses. EVERY ONE of them.

Just as easily as Apple can, and will, pull its jobs back out of China. Which, it should be noted, support some of the largest and most successfull businesses in the country.

Apple can afford to do it. If it wants.

I think we'll let others decide that.

Show me where there is a law saying that Apple must store its encryption keys on-shore. Guess what? There isn't one. See, Apple isn't breaking the law because it isn't IN China, it just does business there. But there's more to this... very much more.

Yeah? How about this? And this? And this? And this?

And many, many more. Hmmm. It seems just maybe I knew a bit more about it than you, eh?

You still aren't getting it. The whole point here is that unlike Chinese citizens, Apple does not have to ask for permission to store its encryption keys offshore. It can store them anywhere it damned well pleases. And if the Chinese government doesn't like that, well, they can just close down those companies that work for Apple. Which... coincidence? I think not... are some of the largest, most successful businesses in China.

Yes, I think we are in agreement. I just thought your comment was awkwardly worded.

Um... just no. The press which follows the current administration (which means most of it) has been spouting pretty much the OPPOSITE of "classical liberalism", which today is called libertarian.

THE END MARKET is what Apple is going for. Screw the Chinese government. What they're doing is in the interest of the Chinese CUSTOMER.

And if you don't see that, then let's talk again about who's retarded.

Yes it is, and that's precisely where you're getting it wrong.

"End users" in China don't want the government to control their information. This is the 21st Century. They're not fucking stupid.