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Comment Re:Everything is an algorithm (Score 1) 263

"You could embody the algorithm in an FPGA and it would be a patentable device... But when you have the same exact algorithm in a self-configuring processor, it's not? How does that make sense?"

Because a specific device may be patentable subject matter, while the algorithm itself is not, and the combination of an algorithm with a general purpose computer is an obvious application of the general purpose computer as soon as the algorithm is known.

Seriously, how does that not make perfect sense?

Because for some reason, you're still stuck on the device. Under 35 USC 101, there are four categories of patentable subject matter - machines, yes, but also articles of manufacture, compositions of matter, and processes. In other words, you can get a patent that claims a "specific device", but you can also get a patent that claims a method. So, if the FPGA executing a new algorithm is a patentable device, why isn't the new algorithm a patentable method?

Comment Re:Everything is an algorithm (Score 1) 263

"Sure, the general purpose computer is known, but if the algorithm is not, and the patent claims the computer performing that algorithm, then it's not blindingly obvious." That's right, the algorithm itself may not be obvious, but algorithms are not patentable! That's settled law.

On the contrary, processes are one of the statutory categories in 35 USC 101, and algorithms are processes. The only ones that aren't patentable are the subset of "mathematical algorithms". But a (new and nonobvious) algorithm for making a sandwich would be patentable.

The patent attorneys try to get around that by patenting a "method" or a "device" instead, which just happens to embody the algorith. But when you read carefully there is no method (other than hiring a coder to program the algorithm into the computer) and no device (other than a general purpose computer doing exactly what it was designed to do.

If they would actually write an application for a special purpose machine that only implements this one algorithm (instead of any algorithm you want to hand it) and that machine itself incorporated innovations, then those should probably be patentable. But that would require actual R&D expenditures, and risks, and still would not be the gold mine that a patent on the simple idea of using a ubiquitous general purpose computer to execute a known algorithm could be.

You could embody the algorithm in an FPGA and it would be a patentable device... But when you have the same exact algorithm in a self-configuring processor, it's not? How does that make sense?

Comment Re:Real Things Are Not Algorithms (Score 1) 263

Are you seriously asking what an abstract concept is?

Yes. It's been at the heart of major supreme court decisions for the last 50 years, and even this opinion refuses to define it other than "I know it when I see it". That didn't work for obscenity either.

It's something that doesn't exist in the real world.

So if something has been done before - say, double ledger bookkeeping - then it's not abstract? That's directly the opposite of this opinion.

If the justices could not come up with a definition, they're disturbingly ignorant.

And yet, they're the ones ruling whether something is patentable or not.

Mathematics is entirely dependent on your choice of axioms. You can accept Euclid's fifth postulate, and discover a composite truth of Euclidean geometry, or reject it and describe some aspect of non-Euclidean geometry. Both are equally valid (though not at the same time) and both describe the real world to some degree. They are however solely logical concepts which do not exist in any real sense. Empirical facts, (e.g. "fire burns things") are true based on observations about the real world, and are only true to the limits of our observational abilities. Mathematical truths are true regardless of observations; they are true in all possible universes, whether those universes include observers.

To quote Phillip K. Dick, "reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Math is not real. Asserting ownership rights over a non-real concept is a popular delusion, but one which should not be tolerated. The cynic in me would suggest that the reason for the Court's confusion in these matters is that they are making an analogy to the concept of justice, which is also both abstract and widely sold.

So, in your opinion, a claim to something that's purely mathematical would be unpatentable as an abstract idea, while a claim to, say, a method of burning something with fire, would be a patentable concrete idea (disregarding the fact that it hasn't been "new" for a million years)?

Comment Re:Everything is an algorithm (Score 1) 263

"But, if you claim a computer configured to perform certain new and non-obvious functions, it can't be implemented wholly in algorithmic terms. It's a device, not the blueprints..."

And that argument fails on the additional grounds of the novelty requirement.

Using a general purpose computer to execute an algorithm can only be described as blindingly obvious, since this is the one and only function of a general purpose computer.

Cool. Since it's so blindingly obvious, can you please tell me how to program a general purpose computer to losslessly compress a random data set to 1/10 size?

Sure, the general purpose computer is known, but if the algorithm is not, and the patent claims the computer performing that algorithm, then it's not blindingly obvious.

Comment Re:Everything is an algorithm (Score 1) 263

Any patented process and device can be described wholly in algorithmic terms.

Described, yes. Software patents (and business method patents, etc.) are the ones which can be implemented wholly in algorithmic terms. You can describe a new manufacturing process with math, but you can't actually manufacture anything until you apply that math by rearranging matter and energy in the real world. It's the application that the patent covers, not the description. The device, not the blueprints.

This ruling simply states what should be obvious, that adding "on a computer" to an abstract concept does not magically transform it into a patent-eligible invention. The patent is still really about the abstract concept, despite the "on a computer" gimmick, and thus remains ineligible.

But, if you claim a computer configured to perform certain new and non-obvious functions, it can't be implemented wholly in algorithmic terms. It's a device, not the blueprints...

The real question is "what's an abstract concept"? This ruling admitted that it didn't have a definition, but in several passages, seems to state that an abstract concept is one that's made up of known steps. If something has been done before, says Thomas, it's abstract. That seems to be an oxymoron - if something has been done, how can it be a mere abstract idea?

Comment Re:Yes, but for the wrong reason (Score 1) 220

process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof

A claim should fail 101 if it claims something that isn't one of the above.
The were not claiming to invent a machine (the computer)
They were not claiming to invent the process (hedging)

Actually, they were. It's the second word in the claim - a "method". They were claiming they invented a specific method of maintaining shadow accounts.

Now, I should stipulate, I don't think they did invent anything, and that this was either known under 102 or obvious under 103 given the existence of double-margin bookkeeping. But they were certainly claiming to have invented a process, which is a statutory category under 101.

Instead their claim was using a machine to solve a problem. That doesn't fall under 101 unless it falls under a patentable process.

Exactly.

SCOTUS said that the 2 step process of (take exising process) and (apply it on a computer) is just a drafting trick to get a patent on old things. If you remove the drafting trick then you have a process with no steps. So they rejected it under 101.

If you remove the drafting trick, you'd have a process with known steps, not no steps. For example, say I had a claim of:
A method for adding two integers, comprising:
inputting a first integer to a computer;
inputting a second integer to the computer;
calculating a sum of the first integer and second integer, with the computer; and
outputting the calculated sum, on a display of the computer.

Now, that's clearly "a process". And if you remove the "drafting trick" of applying it on a computer, you end up with:
A method for adding two integers, comprising:
inputting a first integer;
inputting a second integer;
calculating a sum of the first integer and second integer; and
outputting the calculated sum.

You still have the exact same number of steps, and it's still a process. Now, sure, it's well known and has been for thousands upon thousands of years, but that doesn't suddenly make it not a process, or an "abstract idea", or anything else... It's a claim directed to statutory subject matter under 101 that is not new under 102 and therefore is not a valid patent claim.

Comment Re:Yes, but for the wrong reason (Score 1) 220

Ah, then we agree. And I think you'd agree with this as well:

The goal of an ordinary modern appellate (or supreme court) judge is to confuse the issue enough so he appears clever and important! If the resolution of an issue is too simple, then the judge gets no accolades from the legal community and no invitations to award ceremonies where he can wear black robes. :-)

... you sound like a litigator...

Comment Re:Yes, but for the wrong reason (Score 1) 220

You've almost got this right, Theaetetus:

Because the district court hearing the case invalidated the patent under section 101, the appeal was limited on those grounds. Neither the appellate court nor the Supreme Court could turn to section 103 (obviousness) to invalidate the patent, because there was no ruling on those grounds at the lower court level for them to review. Now if the respondent had made arguments under section 103 and the district court had ruled the patent to be invalid for obviousness, then the Supreme Court could have affirmed on those grounds.

Yes, I was trying to provide the lay version with that bit about SCOTUS being unable to perform their own prior art searches. They're constrained to the trial record, and therefore, even if they felt it was invalid under 102/103, they had to use their magic 101 wand because they felt they had no other options.

What we really need is judges at the district court level that can distinguish reasonings based upon section 101 from 103. By continuing this "abstract idea" line of decisions, the Supreme Court has only clouded the issue further.

Particularly here, where they're essentially using 103 to say the District Court was right about 101. Oy.

Comment Re:Yes, but for the wrong reason (Score 1) 220

But what's an abstract idea?

Isn't the definition that you have to be able to give a patent to a developer skilled in the specific art and he/she can implement exactly the device described by the patent without inventing anything new? If that's not possible, the patent is supposed to be invalid because it's an abstract idea instead of a concrete implementation.

Nope, that's actually 35 USC 112 - the patent disclosure must contain sufficient written description to enable one of ordinary skill in the art to make and use the invention without undue experimentation. But that's about sufficiency of the figures and specification... You could have a hundred pages of perfectly commented pseudocode, flowcharts, descriptions of every signal at every stage, etc., and you'd pass 112, but your patent claim could still fail 101 as being "abstract". For example, in this particular case, Alice Bank actually had a huge specification with detailed flow charts and descriptions... but their patent claim was waaaaay too broad, trying to claim the use of intermediary accounts.

But "waaaaay too broad" isn't the definition of abstract - it's too broad, because it's not new, not because it's somehow an inconceivable abstract thing that people can't wrap their heads around.

Comment Yes, but for the wrong reason (Score 3, Interesting) 220

It was invalidated because the process it describes is super super old. They only thing they added to the old process was using a computer. So if you invent something actually new. Then you can patent that. But "old idea + computer" is not patentable.

If something's not new, it's invalid under 35 USC 102. If something is obvious, it's invalid under 35 USC 103. Both of these would apply to "old process + computer", and the patent should have been invalidated on those grounds...

But, you have to prove that it's an old idea with some evidence in the form of prior art. And because SCOTUS can't do their own prior art searches, even though they knew it was an old idea, they couldn't invalidate it under 102 or 103... So, instead, they turned to 35 USC 101, and said that this was not a patent eligible method because it was directed to an "abstract idea"... But what's an abstract idea? According to Thomas, anything super super old, like you said. But that's what the other statutes are for.

It's the right outcome - the patent was clearly invalid - but for the wrong reason.

Comment Re:Big fuss over nothing (Score 1) 646

I'm part "Native American", enough to join the tribe if I wanted. But I refuse to be associated with a people who are so thin-skinned that they get offended at the drop of a hat. Yes, "redskin" WAS a term of derision, but it's been turned into a better word, a word to be proud of, a word of honor.

There's something seriously ironic about you claiming that the slur is a word of honor for a group that you refuse to be associated with.

Comment Re:I just dont get it (Score 1) 646

The onodaga tribe in NY is where I live. Not one person here that I know is offended by the name the redskins.

... one post later:

A few of [the plaintiffs claiming they're offended] are from where I live and guess what, they are not in good standing in the area any longer because they are being paid to pretend to be outraged right now.

So, which is it? Not one person is offended, or some people are offended? Frankly, if you can't keep your story straight between two consecutive posts, why should we believe you about anything? Are you really even of native american descent, or is this one of those "my family has lived here a long time, and everyone intermarried several hundred years back, so I must be of native descent (even though I couldn't pinpoint a single actual ancestor and no tribe recognizes me)"?

Comment Not so, because this *was* fast (Score 1) 646

From Washington Post: Native Americans have won at this stage before, in 1999. But the team and the NFL won an appeal to federal court in 2009. The court did not rule on the merits of the case, however, but threw it out, saying that the plaintiffs didnâ(TM)t have standing to file it.

It got reversed because of unreasonable delay by the plaintiffs - the Laches doctrine. Here, the plaintiffs are 18 and filed suit as soon as they were able. When it goes to appeal, the court may or may not toss it based on the merits, but they most certainly won't reject it for the same reason as last time.

Comment Re:My two cents (Score 1) 646

Specifically a free speech issue, in a way that "money is speech" doesn't even come close to.

A department of the US government has denied equal protection to an entity incorporated in the US on the basis of the political implications of what they want to say. Short of "free speech zones", you don't get a much more solid 1st amendment issue.

On the contrary, Sparky. A department of the US government has refused to treat an entity differently than all other entities. Dan Snyder can use the word "Redskins" on his merchandise, and so can anyone else. This is the elimination of a government-imposed monopoly on commercial speech.

And they have history on their side - They won on appeal for exactly that reason last time. And they will win again this time.

Nope, they won on appeal because of unreasonable delay by the plaintiffs before bringing suit - the Laches doctrine. Here, the plaintiffs are 18 and brought suit as soon as they could. Even if they may win for an entirely new reason, they most certainly will not win on appeal for that reason.

Personally, I consider this whole issue much ado about nothing - The indians lost to the white demons; if a sports team wants to name themselves after history's losers, hey, their call.

... you're really helping your side with the whole "this isn't disparaging" thing...

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