Take the tinfoil hat off. This is the same US government that loses hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue annually because they don't even have a system to track your W-2 statements automatically for tax purposes. But you think they have a 15 year file with everything online about 300 million citizens? Why bother with that if you can't even make people pay taxes?

Yes, we all think modern government surveillance is creepy and illegal, but let's not give the government more credit for intelligence or reach than it is actually due. The government has neither unlimited money or unlimited access, despite what Slashthink tells you.

is utterly fucking retarded.

If its large enough to warrant Amazon hiring people for a 'private' cloud, its damn sure large enough to do it yourself and cut out the half assed middle man better known as Amazon.

Their 'cloud' is by far the most expensive, poorest performing, highest downtime 'cloud' I've ever seen. You have to be a rather large moron to buy compute from Amazon. You want to serve files with S3, okay, its not 'the worst' so I can understand that choice, but as far as compute is concerned, they are the worst of the worst.

Agreeing to take the polygraph is like agreeing to be tortured and to be subjected to the falsifciations of results by the "test" givers. Anyone who demands a polygraph as a requirement of employment is not a fit person to breathe, much less work for.

while CI looks at whether or not you'd be the type of guy (like Snowden) who'd sell US secrets to someone that wasn't an American.

Pretty sure Snowden could have honestly replied to any questions that made him sound like a spy.

Or is a standard question... "If you found out your the entire apparatus of your employer up to the very top was corrupt and conducting illegal acts, and then lying to Congress about it. Would you keep quiet and participate in those criminal acts in violation of the law and the constitution?

Lol... reminds me of those ethics tests they make people take for retail jobs. Where the "right" answers are to be a sociopath freak.

"Suppose there is a coworker you were friends with, lived through a kidnapping with, and who is the god parent to your children and the best man at your wedding, and is in your opinion an excellent employee. Now if they were in a car accident, and he's running a touch late. He calls you from the parking lot as he's rushing in and asks you to punch them in so they would not appear to be late... would you:
a) clock him in early
b) stay out of it
c) promptly report that he asked you to clock him in on time to your manager, and testify for the company against him when we sue him for the attempt to commit fraud?

Company Answer sheet:
a = wrong answer, automatic fail, and you are a worthless criminal
b = wrong answer
c = correct, this is the exactly the kind of people we want as employees. Just think, your new boss passed this test!! We bet you are looking to work with such ethical people!

It's not that. It depends on the type of investigation you initially undergo to get said clearance in the first place. The big one for anyone holding a TS is a Single Scope Background Investigation (SSBI). That goes through pretty much everything for (to start) the previous ten years. The next piece of the SSBI is the periodic review (PR), which should occur no later than five years after the previous investigation. Having been on the job market for almost 5 months, it was at least a relief to have the PR taken care of prior to my layoff.

Next step up is clearing for Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI). Having the TS-SSBI (and PR) makes you ELIGIBLE to gain compartmented access, but that all falls under the umbrella of need to know. From what I recall back when I first became eligible, I was asked a few questions by the OPM investigator assigned to my case (really heavy on foreign interactions, etc.). Based on that info, along with the info in the SSBI, is what gets you into SCI.

The poly only comes into play whenever a specific SCI program requires it, and even then, it's a little more involved. The big one that we're all familiar with is the Full Scope/Lifestyle, which is what most of the three letter agencies require for the really involved work. Some programs are only interested in counterintelligence (CI), while other programs don't need a poly at all. The main difference between a FS/LS and a CI poly is pretty simple: FS/LS look at anything you can possibly fess up to in your entire lifestyle (money habits, sexual inclinations, drug experiences, etc.), while CI looks at whether or not you'd be the type of guy (like Snowden) who'd sell US secrets to someone that wasn't an American.

Having personally gone through the CI poly process, it's more tedious than anything else.

Yes if the gov did not interview your extended family and friends... teachers, neighbours - your clearance was done (post 911) by a contractor, mostly state/federal searches on a computer, ie if its not networked it was never really uncovered. The US gov has really created huge security mess long term.

People the gov will not really know are moving up in the cleared systems and networks with totally unknown pasts eg the really basic stuff of state sealed youth court issues, school, personality...

What the US missed in its hast, the Russians will find over time.- offering cash or exposure or understanding.

You are speculating incorrectly. I held a special clearance and they went back and talked to elementary school teachers, old friends, etc... If they come up with concerns, they dig further than they did with me.

The 4 million number includes people that have held a clearance for decades. Renewals do not take much investigation.

In other words, if it was 4million new investigations it would be cost prohibitive. It's not, so don't make up stories.

Your friends have been bullshitting you. The investigation for TS is not nearly that invasive. It would be prohibitively expensive if it was. There about 4 million people who hold a TS.

Mostly they are looking for evidence that you are unreliable, prone to criminal behavior or are subject to blackmail.

For a Secret investigation they don't even interview. Just check your records.

It's only when they go to SCI etc. that they get picky.

that's nothing compared what is involved in getting a TS clearance if you don't know

people i've known said they investigate you at least 15 years back. find all your friends, find lost friends, interview them. people in their 20's said the government talked to all their teachers, neighbors, everyone they ever knew in their life

You mean not having the government document your life for the last 20 years is not invasive?

How do they know they know each others secrets...

Or do you mean they trust each other because they trust that they know each others secrets...

Checken and egg, your statement is proven false.

That depends of if we decide the NSA has gone far enough to be considered a domestic enemy of the people. It lies to congress, it lies to the citizens, and it may be lying to the president as well. That doesn't sound much like a legit government agency. It spies on Americans and subverts the Constitution. That sounds like something an enemy does.

Of course they do, otherwise they would have detained him for no reason. Their assumption is that the agents would be at risk if the documents were released, but so far the Guardian has been very careful to redact or not publish anything that could pose danger.

Besides which, arguing that agents of a criminal organization could be at risk if their criminal activity is exposed isn't much of an argument.

The lives of all of those agents is deemed at risk, and their status gives them no protection.

If you work for something that has turned into criminal organizations of the worst kind (e.g., endangering infrastructure components of other countries), you deserve what's coming your way.

And yet you start this thread by implying that even letting the people know of the extent of the abuse is treason. How well do any of your solutions to make the agencies less abusive over time work if the abuse itself is kept secret from the people that are supposed to be motivating the change?