But in reality, in Kosovo, NATO bombing, and KILLING ordinary Yugo citizens. They are not good either.
When KLA is in power, they suppressed Serbians community, to drag them out. The West was silent.
All the top official figures of Kosovo *ARE* crimes, but whitewashed by their master.
The same were/are happened with Lon Nol/Kherme Rough in Cambodia (e.g) in the past or Syria at the moment.
Yes, Assad is not a good guy, but definitely better than the "moderate" groups, which is actually terrorists.
All true, and I do not dispute that. NATO are not knights in shining armor. It's just sometimes they are a less bad option. And sometimes it's not clear which is which, at least not right away. E.g. Serbian government was deliberately massacring and driving out Albanians in Kosovo, and refused to back down despite repeated attempts to solve the problem diplomatically - I feel that armed involvement on humanitarian grounds was justified there.
But the way it was actually done, bombing civilian or dual use targets with significant collateral damage (esp. that bridge bombing that got the train, and pretty much all the bombs dropped on Belgrade), was not good at all. And, of course, once Serbian military and paramilitary withdrew from Kosovo, KLA and sympathetic locals have simply turned the tables and started burning down Orthodox churches and attacking Serbs - and that was simply ignored.
OTOH, if NATO didn't intervene, how many civilian Albanians would have died? I don't know, but I suspect it would have been even worse (even just looking at it from a cold hard numbers perspective, as Kosovo has more Albanians than Serbs).
Odessa massacre, how about this after one year? No one was convicted despite that dozens were burnt alive.
Are you aware of the events of that day immediately leading to the massacre? There is a lot of mythology surrounding that whole thing, Unlike many people who get the picture mainly from Russian agitprop imagine it, it wasn't just a spontaneous "hey, let's go kill some separatists" kind of thing.
To remind, the event started with a demonstration/rally of anti-separatists through the city - that one was peaceful (i.e. they didn't intentionally seek out anyone to attack), but had some people armed, mostly with sticks, baseball bats and such, on the basis that they wanted something to defend themselves if attacked. The local Antimaidan has decided that they want to counter that show of force with their own, and prepared another column that was deliberately sent on an intercept route, and started attacking the demonstration when they met.
So it began as a stones-and-sticks fight that was initiated by Antimaidan, and then gradually escalated from there. If you watch some of the videos from earlier that day, you can see Antimaidan fighters using firearms, and being covered by the riot police using their shields while doing so (i.e. the police was seemingly aligned with them without going all the way in). Here are two videos capturing the same event from two different angles - you can clearly see a fat guy with an AK (or, more likely, Saiga) firing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
You can tell that this is filmed from the Antimaidan side because they're all wearing red armbands without any black, and some of them are wearing striped orange/black ribbons.
Consequently, the first dead body of that day (with a bullet wound) was one of the pro-Maidan demonstrators. Several more followed. From there it escalated as pro-Maidan activists have called for more support, and that has arrived with firearms as well.
Obviously, nothing quite like being shot at and seeing people die around you to wind up a mob. So when their numerical superiority forced the Antimaidan guys to disperse, the crowd decided to "teach them a lesson", and headed to the Antimaidan tent camp at the Trade Union Building to dismantle it. The camp got a warning well in advance, and, for the most part, dispersed, but some people decided to make a stand in the building. More fire was exchanged from both sides:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Several more people died in that firefight. The crowd, meanwhile, started lobbing molotov cocktails at the building, mostly at the lower levels where they could actually reach. As windows and main doors on the ground floor were barricaded with wood and tires, they quickly caught fire, and soon the entire ground floor was engulfed, cutting off access, though some people inside managed to escape from the back windows. Then the fire started to overtake higher floors one by one, and those still inside were trapped - some jumping out of the windows, others choking to death.
On the pro-Maidan side, the ugly part was that some of those who jumped were beaten up as they were lying on the ground. Though that was by no means universal - some people wanted blood, others rushed in to give aid. Either way, by the time it came to this, it was mostly too late, because there was no way to escape other than jumping, and it was too high to be safe to jump.
So all in all, the events in Odessa, while tragic, don't really have much in common with a premeditated massacre. It was a very unfortunate sequence of events, that escalated largely thanks to Antimaidan (and possibly even more because of police assistance to them), and resulted in two enraged mobs clashing, and the larger one "winning" - but that was not treated as common or routine by anyone involved, and nothing like that has repeated since then.
I'm also well aware that some Ukrainian troops are committing war crimes while fighting separatists. Of course, separatists themselves are also routinely committing war crimes (have you seen the video of the mass grave they excavated after the liberation of Slavyansk?). I'm not particularly fond of the neo-Nazi National Guard batallions like "Azov", and think that their formation was a mistake - and convict batallions like "Shakhtarsk" were an even bigger mistake (but they found that out pretty fast when it was showered with complaints about looting, and consequently disbanded).
To remind, though, Azov is less than a thousand troops out of 30,000 (if I remember correctly) fighting, and most of the rest aren't hardline nationalists or convicts, nor have they been observed to be engaging in inappropriate conduct.
OTOH, on the separatist side, there's plenty of stomach-turning personalities and units, as well. Milchakov and his "Rusich", for example, or the now-dead "Batman". I have also directly communicated with some people who fought there on separatist side, and who espouse national socialist or other extreme nationalist ideologies. Then there are the Antratsit cossacks, who are their own brand of batshit crazy (not dissimilar to the extreme right-wing in USA, actually).
The problem is that separatists seem to be elevating some bits of this stuff to the level of their official ideology - most notably, this entire "Russian World" business, militant Orthodoxy, and disdain towards democracy and liberalism in general. OTOH, on the Ukrainian side, it is relegated to "Azov", "Right Sector" etc, who are neither the majority nor have a strong voice in the government, and who got quite a spanking from the populace during the elections. So, as a flaming liberal, I feel like betting on Ukraine is more appropriate - while noting that they're still far from perfect in that regard.
Don't post that in front of a Polish!
Frankly, this is mostly there for the purpose of trolling my compatriots. I don't think that either most Ukrainians who use the phrase, or most Russians who hear it, actually make any connection to its original use by OUN/UPA, and the relevance of the Volyn massacre. For Ukrainians, the "heroes" in question are first and foremost those on Maidan; I know quite a few people who treat it that way, and are not at all fond of Bandera, Shukhevich or Melnik.