"There is no entity except the government that can force theistic education in all schools."

Sorry, but this has to be the most unreasonable line I have read on slashdot today. It was a good debate, but you just lost. Without the fed forcing schools to do their job, we would have a laughing stock of an education system. We already have entire states trying to add bible crap to the science classroom. With that said, we do need school and teacher accountability......but we need this to come from the fed. If the states do it, this country is screwed. Travel to some of these states and talk to the members of the school board about what they think their school should teach........then come back.

Clearly, you have no idea what ObamaCare is, and what it was originally. The Left compromised a lot on that one....to the point that the bill was a shadow of its former self. It was a victory for the right; it seemed more in line with what the right wanted than the left. Oh the irony that you posted this in a story about Wisconsin where the Right minority (according to the latest polls) have forced their plan on the people. It is fun watching the Right try to save face this week by acting like they actually care about helping the economy.

As an independent, I am seeing a pattern here on slashdot and everywhere. Those on the right don't seem to remember history very well, and seem to continually fail to argue their point. When they do use historical references and sources, they show a lack of understanding or a total denial of facts. Maybe this is due to religious foundations in blind faith, or due to being more comfortable simply denying things (like man-caused climate change).

Too many of those on the left ignore these inaccuracies, weaknesses, and mistakes, considering the person some sort of extreme person that can be ignored. The problem is, more people are buying into the extreme bunk and then are brainwashing others. The right needs a history lesson, and the left needs to toughen up. Stop worrying about hurting peoples feelings and start telling people when they are flat-out wrong.

As it stands however, I don't think the left has a chance. The majority of the media is currently controlled by the right, brainwashing the masses of American Idol watching zombees. Several hundred from the left were arrested this week in a protest.....didn't hardly make the media. If it were several hundred tea-party members.......it would be all we hear about.....24/7 coverage. The left needs to step up their game. Yeah, the crookedness of the right may have pushed me to the left...even though I still call myself independent.

Did it make you feel good to help the person? Would you have done it if it had made you feel guilty? An interesting conversation point. Does altruism actually exist?

I agree with most of your post, except that you say I am misleading. You quote the word "opportunity" and prefer the word "utilize". I used neither of those terms however. I simply said that the rich benefit more....which they indeed do from a financial perspective.

Otherwise, I agree with you mostly. Call it class warfare then, fine with me, it is justified. When the democratic process has failed because the wealthy control the vote....it is justified. I would go so far as to say criminal....but unfortunately the wealthy have had the power to change the laws to legalize their actions.

I would believe he has a degree in engineering. Most creative minds I know have such backgrounds. No surprise there...but he is going to have less and less customers as money continues to be concentrated at the top.

All I know is that I shouldn't be paying a lower tax rate on my capital gains than someone who actually moves heavy stuff. Isn't right. Slashdot has never been a good place to find people with any form of empathy however. Either way, your last statement is where I think most of us agree. No deductions. None. Done. Except maybe for stuff I buy.

Anyway, i found this interesting when doing some reading on the topic
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Gini_since_WWII.svg

"(Although, if you display this kind of communication skill on your CV and in interviews, no further explanation is necessary...)"
"what purpose do you have for knowing the precise reasons behind me not having any income?"

He enjoys beating down on the poor, that is clear from his stance and enjoys hearing of their misery. He also wants to justify to himself that it could not happen to him. Nothing he has said shows any insight or understanding; he instead feels better about himself and his failures by learning about others who he feels are doing worse. In a job interview, I would hire you, not him. That elitist attitude doesn't fly everywhere...I am not sure why it is accepted anywhere. With that attitude, I am sure he has friends lined up that would help him out :)

Your points on taxes were well written and common sense by any reasonable standards. Unfortunately there is a minority of ignorant and vocal people on the internet and media and politics making it seem like a reasonable argument exists in beating down the poor even more. This is going to end. The only defense they now have is to call it "class warfare" when indeed they are the ones waging war based upon class. The rich do have to pay more, as they are the ones benefiting most from the infrastructure and services this country provides. It is inevitable.....no need to argue with those who cannot see it. Thank you for the comments.

Excellent response. So I often wonder then why parents are so eager to freak out when their kid runs a slight fever. Get the drugs, we need to get that fever down! WTF? Where does that come from?

That seems like an odd solution to me.....at some intersections this wouldn't even be possible. Even still, you mention an unlit stretch of road. Funny thing is, on my bike, my lighting is great for unlit stretches. The lights are visible for well over a mile. It is the brightly lit areas that are a problem....too many other lights competing for drivers attention. I much prefer biking at night on pitch black roads. I can hear the cars begin to slow down a quarter mile back.

It sounds like we agree on everything, except what it means to be poor. Maybe it is because I grew up poor. You are correct about the wealth distribution.....but the poor here in the midwest have nothing but themself to blame. The could easily become middle class with a bit of effort. This brings us to your point......is it worth the effort to become middle class as the quality of life there is slowly sucked dry. I thought we were talking about those without even food however.

I guess I do not understand how someone can starve in America. On my walk to work I can find enough change on the ground to buy a 2 pound container of dry goods at the local market. Heck, the number of fruit trees that people do not harvest from their yards indicates that food is still aplenty in the US. We are increasing our food exports to China afterall. Food is the one thing we have plenty of in the US.

Dandelion greens and other plants are always an option too.... based on your logic, things must be getting better. My parents and grandparents used to pick greens to stay alive, along with many extended family members. Not anymore. Now they garden them. The idea is the same however.

What percent of the population is living in these tent cities? You truly believe that this will happen to the entire middle class? Do you think then that 90% of the homes in this country will be empty? Really? Don't you think that maybe the home prices would drop....that supply-and-demand thing? Do you notice that prices are still dropping and home construction has stalled? It would seem to me, we have more than enough homes, which is why building more is not really what the market desires.
If people wouldn't buy a house and car they couldn't afford, they wouldn't lose them when times get tough. There are a few exceptions, but after the purchase price, you should just have the maintenance, utilities, and taxes. Americans do not buy a house they can easily afford, they buy one they can barely afford. Then they make payments on a car; a product that will eventually be worthless. Do we have problems with the wealth being sucked out of America? Yup. Does that mean you should be starving already in this country? Nope.

Also, I never said that I would blame the poor for anything. Please read again. I fully expect someone who is starving to steal if that means they can feed their family.

"Saying that they shouldn't be getting any help from those that control the vast majority of the wealth is just rather despicable."

This is not really what the conversation was about; we were discussing how handouts may relate in some way to crime and increased unemployment. You are correct however, the wealth difference is despicable. While I agree with your sentiment, and agree that there are individual exceptions, I do not really think that healthy food, reliable transport, nor quality time with your kids have to be expensive. People use that excuse to eat junkfood, drive a car they cannot afford, and let someone else raise their kids. Laziness seems to be the problem for the majority (not all) of those struggling economically that I know well. The path of least resistance needs to be carefully mapped for a majority of the population "to succeed". The homeless you speak of are the very poor. The general poverty group is usually defined as the lowest 10 to 20 percent of the population here in the US. Few of those are homeless.

I agree entirely. Laptops have even been reduced here though. In our office, 2/3 of the laptop users have undocked their laptop maybe once per year. They discovered they did not really need a laptop, and now they are discovering they really do not need a tablet. We have even had a few users request a tower, and one even requested switching to a thin client! They might be learning.......i will surely get a reality check with some support calls this afternoon however.

I agree entirely, I know some as well. I just wanted to point out that crime may increase as a result.....so the true cost may also go up. Giving money out to bums keeps the money in this economy, at first anyway. There are other government programs which spend the money in far less economically beneficial ways. By my own logic however, the increase in crime would keep the prison and legal systems well funded, also spending money in this economy. I am just saying, it isn't as one sided as you propose.

I agree entirely. Excellent points. Also, I would like to point out that Americans are still driving to the store to buy 1 or two items....so clearly they are not hurting that bad. Processed food costs more than staples, yet it still sells. Gas is considered expensive, even though Americans are still sitting in their work parking lots during break times with the car running (usually smoking while on their expensive cell phones, also expensive). Americans have no idea what true poverty even is. Heck, my family is well below what is considered poverty in our area.....and we actually feel like we are pretty well off. Go figure. Our kids could get free school lunch even, but we turn it down.

I disagree with this point however.

But I will note that giving poor people loads of guarenteed no-strings money has never worked, not here, not in somalia, not pretty much anywhere. If you incentivize not working, people will not work, or will find a way to exploit the situation.

It would seem that those who do not work are taking the path of least resistance. Crime seems to be that path when they are not paid to sit quietly.

We have rolled out almost every type of tablet as a test to our users. They have claimed that they were needed, and loved them at first. A after a few weeks, the vast majority of the users have said that they rarely use it anymore....and now are back to their laptop. The biggest reason....."the tablet really needs a keyboard attached to it". The only users still using their tablet tend to carry a wireless keyboard with it. Others even carry a docking station around too. At that point, why not just have a netbook? The 12 and 13 inch netbooks seem to make our users far happier.

For the record, we have tried the HP slate, HP webOS products, ipad, blackberry playbook, and one other that I am forgetting. All end in the same results......."I wish it had a keyboard".

Maybe for sitting on the couch they work, but for productivity they seem to have been a flop around here. The only use they have left is for salesmen to put photos on....it is convenient for them to show photos to clients (and the pads look high tech for the impression factor).

While I do enjoy watching a few minutes of that new show "Wipeout", I wonder what the aliens will think of that! I guess It will either show how durable the human form is, or how weak the human brain is.