explain how that works. you've just made a statement of unsupported belief

i've explained to you reality, straightforward: a high cost of entry into the market prevents competition. high cost alone

you have opposed my description of reality. that's fine, you don't have to agrere with me

but you have to be able to explain how or why i am wrong. you have not done that

"go read my religious literature" is not an argument

if you can't make your case in plain language, that says something doesn't it?

an unsupported faith in an unsupported statement is trendy nonsense

a fiber rollout for a large city costs {X}

{X} is huge

therefore {X} is a barrier for competition

what's the difficulty with grasping this straightforward concept exactly?

so explain it to me

it's not government mandated, it's a *natural* monopoly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...

things like fire, police, healthcare, powerplants: there is no market for such things. for a number of reasons. with broadband it's because of high barrier to entry: no one has the billions to gamble on entering the market with uncertain payout

oh google does. so go ahead and wait 40 years until they get to your city

but if you make believe (like the usa does) that things like broadband and healthcare are free markets, you just wind up with grossly expensive, inefficient jokes

what we need is universal healthcare, and government owned fiber

i hear it already: "oh you evil socialist statist..." *drool, snort*

i don't like the government. but unlike some people, i recognize that on the topic of *natural* monopolies, government control is the least horrible situation, and certainly better than the usa's joke of healthcare system or approach to broadband

capitalism is a wonderful tool. i love capitalism

for example: governments should own all fiber, and then lease it to private companies to deliver services. any private company can lease to provide any service. that's wonderful capitalism, embraced in a manner of fair competition. without the bullshit notion they own the fiber too, and there's "competition". no there isn't. and there never will be. and no government policy is to blame. it's the simple nature of the sector fo the economy: too high of a cost to enter. no one else can afford to roll out the fiber

capitalism is not a fucking religion, and it has its limits

natural monopolies represent those limits

if you don't understand what a natural monopoly is, stop talking about economics, you don't understand the topic

government is not your enemy, rent seeking parasites CORRUPTING your government are. you want to remove the corruption and have your government work for you. not weaken and remove government, thereby allowing the monopolists to rape you even more

there's just a certain kind of person in the world that think government is the problem no matter what. and on topics where the real problem is something else: natural monopolies, they simply enable the monopolists by misdirecting their anger at the wrong target (government). propaganda funded by the plutocrats are happy to feed this error, because indeed, with a weakened government, they get to rape you even more without even the pesky need to buy off congresscritters and pass warped regulations at all

c'mon man, don't mess it up

it's called the IoT of Things

there isn't an IoTa of awareness

insane != abstract

you don't get to redefine words as their opposite meaning and expect to sound logically coherent

"i'm going to redefine 'wet' as 'dry' and continue talking about climatology and expect people to still take me seriously..."

okay, crackpot

i'm not willing to entertain the mental gymnastics whereby moderation is defined as an extreme

you're nuts dude

i stopped reading there

how did that work with cuba? iran? north korea? china?

what you're asking for is massacred citizens

iran for example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2...

no matter how many intelligent, forward thinking students you have agitating in the cities, the government just calls up busloads of basiji thugs from the countryside and cracks skulls until change seekers shut up in fear. or worse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

slow stead engagement is what really works

reactionary inflexibility simply means no change at all

welcome to reality

this is you:

http://www.politico.com/story/...

pragmatism, flexibility, realism, compromise always wins

inflexible ideological dogmatism is how you lose and are ignored

well yeah, by definition a rock star is very rare

so if you want a rockstar working for you, you better be ready to shell out big money or provide truly extraordinary perks

you can't just expect or demand rock star status from average or even above average programmers. you can't mold people's personalities like their technical proficiency. i suppose there does exist stress mitigating strategies someone can consciously adapt. but from the rock star i met, it is a sort of chilly immunity to even the concept of stress that is quite awesome to behold

that's why i quoted eisenhower

because when i met such a person, i immediately thought of someone functioning under the stresses of extreme combat. i thought of this person on the eastern front in wwii. what it would take to survive *real* stress, because stress in programming, while real, taken in perspective to something like fields of combat, is a joke

i always wondered if this person had indeed been in such an extreme stressful environment, like war. a sort of "once i've seen that, none of this shit impresses me." because indeed, nothing seemed to impress him. you could scream in his face and he would react the same as if you were casually discussing gardening. nothing phased the dude

i have met a person with that stress proof personality, and above average talent. they exist. those are the rockstars

not sure if joking (look around here, there are some socially autistic morons on slashdot)

if you are joking, thanks for the laugh

if not, the middle way and compromise as an extreme is... stupid. not even logically coherent

ok, let's say you prevail. zuckerberg gives turkey the middle finger and doesn't censor images

ok, now facebook is kicked out turkey

what have you "won" exactly?

how has turkey changed in any way? you've given the authoritarians a win: they've successfully excised the evil western cancer of facebook from glorious turkey

and how will turkey change in the future?

so you're for not opening diplomatic relations with cuba? we should just never ever ever reconcile or talk with cuba? how has that strategy paid off to change cuba?

we don't talk to iran? what is iran's attitude going to be then?

you are a dogmatic rigid ideologue

you are exactly the same as what you don't like in turkey

and the fruits of your ignorant stubbornness is you HELP the people you don't like

pragmatism always wins

"i know you are but what am i" went out of style as rhetorically effective sometime around the second grade of elementary school. you don't even make any logical sense

I never really thought about them being any different. I always thought of them as being the same.

It looks like Suzuki and Honda have both ATVs and UTVs. I found on another site the major difference is the seating arrangement (side-by-side for UTV). The UTV can have seatbelts, and have motorcycle type controls rather than golfcart/car type controls.

I've always thought about it by engine and general style. Well, I learned something today. :)

What I said before about seeing them still applies. When I lived in a rural area, I saw people riding ATVs on the road, but they would also get pulled over if a cop saw them. I got pulled over a few times riding a street/trail bike, even though it had all the required equipment, license plate, and I had (and have) a motorcycle endorsement. Because of the gearing, it had lots of torque, but maxed out at 60mph.

It looks like they plan to do the cooler thing, the printed body on a performance rolling chassis. It'll probably be looking at them again in a few years.