Even if it's not legally extortion (I think it is), it still violates the contract users have with their ISPs. My contract doesn't allow any such thing.

For Christ's sake, let's just make them all Title II Common Carriers and have done with all this bullshit. It might not solve everything but it solves about 95% of it.

Who didn't see this coming?

You're talking reason, which doesn't work in this context. They don't want to invest in infrastructure. Instead, they keep traffic slow on purpose, in order to create a fake "shortage" of bandwidth, thereby allowing them to charge more for less service.

It's typical monopolistic bullshit. And they get away with it because they're gigantic corporations that don't really compete in most of the U.S., because they have defined, doled-out territories.

Your argument makes sense in a free-market, business context. But it ain't a free market, and it ain't normal business. On the contrary, it has been government-collusion monopoly.

This is funny because every server I have worked on in the last 15 years -- and that means a lot -- has gotten regularly port-scanned and other penetration attempts from Chinese IP addresses. EVERY ONE of them.

Just as easily as Apple can, and will, pull its jobs back out of China. Which, it should be noted, support some of the largest and most successfull businesses in the country.

Apple can afford to do it. If it wants.

I think we'll let others decide that.

Show me where there is a law saying that Apple must store its encryption keys on-shore. Guess what? There isn't one. See, Apple isn't breaking the law because it isn't IN China, it just does business there. But there's more to this... very much more.

Yeah? How about this? And this? And this? And this?

And many, many more. Hmmm. It seems just maybe I knew a bit more about it than you, eh?

You still aren't getting it. The whole point here is that unlike Chinese citizens, Apple does not have to ask for permission to store its encryption keys offshore. It can store them anywhere it damned well pleases. And if the Chinese government doesn't like that, well, they can just close down those companies that work for Apple. Which... coincidence? I think not... are some of the largest, most successful businesses in China.

Yes, I think we are in agreement. I just thought your comment was awkwardly worded.

Um... just no. The press which follows the current administration (which means most of it) has been spouting pretty much the OPPOSITE of "classical liberalism", which today is called libertarian.

THE END MARKET is what Apple is going for. Screw the Chinese government. What they're doing is in the interest of the Chinese CUSTOMER.

And if you don't see that, then let's talk again about who's retarded.

Yes it is, and that's precisely where you're getting it wrong.

"End users" in China don't want the government to control their information. This is the 21st Century. They're not fucking stupid.

What a silly-assed thing to say. Sure, they could order it. And Apple could completely ignore them. Big fucking deal.

Guess what? Apple has been gradually been bringing its manufacturing back home. If China pressed them, they'd just do it quicker.

No, and this is the crux of the point. What do you consider "every few years"? Cable around here hasn't been upgraded in any significant way for AT LEAST 10 years, and I know damned well that the (big name) ISP has no plans to do it soon.

BECAUSE it costs so much.

Apple's statement that its move is to "improve speed and reliability" is clearly bullshit, in light of the recent Chinese government demand that such data be stored in-country. So much is clear and obvious.

However, Apple should be given huge kudos if their claim that they store it encrypted, and that the encryption keys are offshore, is correct. If so, it's a brilliant move. Eat that, China!

It happens in a number of states right now, including some around here. Go ask them if they're dreaming.

Very well put.