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A Master's In CS or a Master's In Game Programming? 278

Rustcycle asks: "I'm attending the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs, which has just announced that they are offering a Master's Degree in their Games and Media Integration (GMI) program. There is a fair amount of overlap between the GMI curriculum and the CS courses, so I'm considering a switch in degrees. If you were hiring MS grads outside the game industry for visualization work, am I worth more to you with the more specialized program or would you be more interested in me if I had more exposure? Within the gaming industry, how much does a specialized degree compel a company to hire a recent grad?"
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A Master's In CS or a Master's In Game Programming?

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  • Nope (Score:4, Interesting)

    by aarku ( 151823 ) on Friday November 17, 2006 @07:14PM (#16891594) Journal
    A gaming degree doesn't mean squat to me when I'm looking for people. What is important is what they've done and how they are as a person. Passion is the strongest dye on the planet and it stains everything that someone does. If you don't have a lot to show then you're not passionate about games and you will be left in the dust by the people who are.
  • by JNighthawk ( 769575 ) <NihirNighthawk@nOSpAm.aol.com> on Friday November 17, 2006 @07:18PM (#16891646)
    I'm about to graduate with a BS of Game Design and Development from Full Sail. It's mostly just development, since designing is something hard to teach, but, from my experience, Full Sail, Digipen and Guild Hall are among the best if you're trying to become a game developer. Ignore the people that say people in the industry laugh at gaming schools. Ignore the people that say if you don't go to a gaming school, you can never become a game developer. It really depends on you. Education is a tool, among many, not the one and only thing that will determine whether you'll get the job. So, do your research, and figure it out. Honestly, screw the paper that says you graduated, go with what gives you the best education. That's why I chose Full Sail.
  • by Sir_Sri ( 199544 ) on Friday November 17, 2006 @07:46PM (#16891882)
    If you want a job in the games industry (as a developer), you need the following (forgive the things I've forgotten):
    1: Good C++ engineering skills. Have this as part of your portfolio you send with a resume
    2: A good understanding of algorithms in general, both single and multithreaded
    3: Datastructures
    4: Linear Algebra
    5: If you want to be a rendering guy (which I kind of am, though more generally I'm a high performance guy), you need calculus.
    6: Basic physics
    7: Depending on what specifically you want to do, some 'advanced' (ie second year) physics
    8: Operating systems. That is, how does the OS work, how does that impact me as a software developer.

    Things that can't hurt: Familiarity with some game specific problems, such as rendering, game AI, the slightly different philosophy for some of the advanced topics like networking and distributed systems. Obviously you need to know how to program in Windows, even minimally. If you have C++ skills by the time you graduate you can easily apply those to consoles and probably mobiles.

    Can you get all of those with an MSc in either CS or Game development? I suspect yes. With the game development you're probably marginally more prepared for game dev, after all this is MSc level, not BSc. Being at the MSc level means you're focusing your research interests and advanced topics on the details of some game related problems, but you can do that in a regular MSc just as well as in GD (that's what I'm doing/did, which is graphics stuff as an MSc in CS).

    So which is better? The GD might give you a tiny edge over an equivalent CS person (after all you've demonstrated your interest), on the other hand, the CS MSc means you can, after working 80 hours a week for 3 months of 'crunch time' decide to screw this and work somewhere else, and be equally valuable. Also your employer knows you at least on paper are more attractive elsehwere, meaning they may be willing to do a little extra to keep you, at worst they treat you the same as every other developer they have.

    Personally, I would do the MSc in CS, with a research topic/thesis on a topic that impacts game developers. If they like you, they'll give you a job, if not you still have a normal sounding MSc on paper you can use to work elsewhere. Esspecially if you're a graphics guy like me, diversify: Take medical imaging as well as game related graphics.

    That's mostly what I got from a conference held in london ontario a couple of weeks ago (futureplay).

    The only other useful tidbit I picked up, was a game dev studio can be picky enough to take the only the top 10% of CS grads out there. The huge desire to go into the game business means they have a large talent pool, and while right now you may feel you measure up, the last thing you want is to get your degree and find out 3 months from now that you don't.

    P.S. I met some of the people setting up this programme at the conference, I may even have met you if you were there (I was the tall thin loud one), it looks like a good program though I'd prefer a MSc in CS with a research topic in game development than a MSc in game development, I don't think you're done a disservice with either.
  • by LordZardoz ( 155141 ) on Friday November 17, 2006 @08:07PM (#16892064)
    Note: I am a game developer, and therefore have at least an informed opinion on this.

    If your dead focused on going into games, then getting the GMI degree is probably a better bet. But if you want to keep your options open, go for the CS degree.

    The primary difference would be that with the GMI degree, you will end up taking courses that are very important to Game development at the expense of some other skills. (ie: I would guess that the GMI degree will get you courses on Matrix and Vector math, and the particulars of pixel shaders, instead of things like compiler theory and systems programming).

    The trade off is that there really aren't a whole lot of jobs out there that require the particular combination of 3d Math and graphics knowledge that game development requires. The graphics and animation stuff will come in handy if you decide to try your hand at making special effects software, but knowing how to transform a point from local space to screen space wont help you get a job doing Linux programming for a telecom company.

    On top of that, the games industry is just not as mature an industry as other programming jobs. Things like the ea_spouse incident with EA's overtime practices are one aspect. And the industry as a whole needs to get a much better grip on the project management side of things. Things have been improving, but there is still a long way to go.

    Anyway, if you just want to be a programmer, the CS degree is the way to go. But if you want to be a game programmer specifically, go for the GMI degree.

    END COMMUNICATION
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17, 2006 @08:33PM (#16892336)
    I will be starting my Master's degree at the University of Southern California this coming January. They have just started offering a Master's Degree in Computer Science with an emphasis in Game Development. All of the core classes (algorithms, computer graphics, artificial intelligence, etc.) are applicable towards either a traditional CS degree, or the more specialized Game Development CS degree. I would recommend finding something like this... you get the basic theory and knowledge of a traditional CS master's degree, with specialized attention in specific areas relating to game development.

    If you do not have a program like this available, take the advice of the majority of the people on here, and go for a regular CS degree, or find a job and get experience. I work for USC, so I gain experience while they pay for my education :)

    http://gamepipe.usc.edu/ [usc.edu] for more information.
  • by rubberbando ( 784342 ) on Friday November 17, 2006 @08:44PM (#16892422)
    If both degrees are that close in requirements, I'd say get the CS degree and if you can afford it, take the few other courses afterwards to complete the other degree. That way you have 2 Masters degrees on your resume. :-D
  • by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Friday November 17, 2006 @08:58PM (#16892546) Journal

    I'm not in the game industry, but if a resume ever came across my desk with a "game degree" on it, I'd almost reflexively trash it. True or not, the impression is that such "degrees" are offered by profit-motivated, crank 'em out, trade school companies. If I were in the game industry, the profile I'd be looking for is somebody with a CS degree (not necessarily a master's) who has the additional background is applicable to games. (vector algebra? assembly optimization? I don't know--you'll have to do some research to find out what skills are really required for game development, and then select coursework in your MSCS that will prepare you for it). If the candidate didn't have game development experience, I'd be looking for a freeware or OSS game that he'd written. It wouldn't have to be popular, it would just have to demonstrate skill. IMHO, when looking for people to do any type of programming, there is no better indicator of future success than the fact that they are already practicing the art. That seems rather obvious, and yet so many people don't even consider it. They just look at your degree; so get a MSCS. Don't even think about a game degree. Run really fast in the other direction. Did I mention not to get a game degree? OK, good.

  • Re:Get the CS degree (Score:3, Interesting)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Friday November 17, 2006 @09:49PM (#16892898)
    Most (all?) CS curricula will have a linear algebra course, add to that a graphics course where you learn why graphics is mainly linear algebra and you have the math pretty well covered.

    That said, I think physics might become much more important as games increasingly have realistic physical simulations, instead of the silly simple dynamics (or even static models, e.g. indestructible buildings and terrain) of the past.

  • Re:Get the CS degree (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Sj0 ( 472011 ) on Friday November 17, 2006 @11:50PM (#16893564) Journal
    "Gee....Do I want to have a well-rounded, versatile education that will help me work in my chosen field, or do I want to learn how to use DirectX 9.0c to draw pixel shaders 3.0 using my Radeon X1600? I want the latter. Look at all those version numbers! Those will surely impress a prospective employer more than the skills neccessary to quickly pick up any API!"
  • by threaded ( 89367 ) on Saturday November 18, 2006 @01:34AM (#16893950) Homepage
    Study Law or Accountancy these skills are truely what shape the games industry.

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