Virgin Atlantic Bans Dell, Apple Laptops

TechFreep writes, "Amid a slew of incidents involving exploding Sony batteries, Virgin Atlantic announced that it won't allow passengers to use batteries in any Apple or Dell laptops on flights. The announcement, posted on Virgin's website, said that passengers may carry on the laptop itself, but batteries must be properly wrapped and stowed away in carry-on for the duration of the flight. However, the airline provided no details as to what proper wrapping entails. For those who wish to use a laptop while on the plane, Virgin plans to provide power adapters on flights where outlets are available." Will Virgin allow on board exploding Sony batteries in IBM ThinkPads?

Re:Seat power outlets

[GNU(slash)Nickname]

I don't know how much power each outlet can output, but I'm more than certain it can do more than 1 laptop per outlet.

Don't count on that. The last one I used (on a new Air Canada Embraer 190) had only enough power available to charge the battery *or* run the laptop (a Dell D610).

Until the battery was fully charged, I had to leave the laptop turned off or else the breaker would trip every 2 minutes.

Re:Why not ban *all* batteries?

[daverabbitz]

A lead acid battery is *not* more dangerous than a Lithium battery. It does provide a higher short-circuit current in general because of the design of said battery, however...

* An SLA doesn't explode if punctured, it just leaks corrosive paste everywhere (still nasty).

* An SLA doesn't explode if overcharged, it generally just busts open and leaks the corrosive paste.

* An SLA doesn't explode if undercharged, it just sulfates the plates causing the battery to not work well.

* An SLA doesn't explode if shorted out, the pressure release valve pops and hot corrosive paste is ejected.

In theory if the pressure release system had been tampered with and the battery was shorted out, the paste/aqueous solution could boil and build up critical pressure cuasing it to explode, however I have never seen this happen, and it still wouldn't burst into flames, just throw highly corrosive steam everywhere...

Re:In other news...

[Achromatic1978]

It's been my experience that once your company reaches a notable size, those decisions cease to be those of the employees - your travel is either handled externally - often Carlson Wagonlit and AmEx seem to be the biggest in specialising in 'corporate travel' - or at some companies I've been at, they actually /have/ an internal travel department with employees trained on Galileo, etc and a travel agent's license.

It's rarely "hey, book your own flights, just try not to use airline x, y, and z".

Besides, most corporate travel policies aren't based on "hey, these guys won't let you use your laptop", it's generally "cheapest possible. you can keep the flier miles, and fly your preferred airline to get those points, as long as the airline choice doesn't result in increased expenditure".

One Jet's already burned.

[DingerX]

Hold fire suppression systems are not that I know mandatory, and if they were, it is questionable whether they'd be effective on a Li-Ion fire. There's a discussion about just this stuff going on at the NTSB right now, since laptop batteries are strongly suspected in a recent hull-loss. From the July 12-13 hearing [ntsb.gov] about the UPS DC-8 that burned right after landing back in February. They found plenty of laptop batteries in the hold, most of them crisped. Cause has not been assigned yet, but

2. Design, Testing, and Failure Modes of Lithium Batteries.

* Testimony about lithium batteries will include discussions of their benefits and their hazards, as well as their safety features and failure histories.

3. Operations and Regulations concerning Lithium Batteries.

* Discussion under this topic will focus on the requirements involving air transportation of lithium batteries--including differences in these requirements between passenger and cargo aircraft--and ways in which the hazards associated with lithium batteries can be minimized and finally,

4. Aircraft Fire Detection and Suppression Systems and Regulations

* The Safety Board has issued recommendations in the past for incorporation of detection and suppression systems on commercial aircraft. Discussion under this topic will include a review of technology and regulations of these systems, difficulties and challenges that these systems may bring, and differences in these areas as they pertain to both passenger and cargo aircraft.

At that meeting, they noted a case in December, in Chicago:

Several lithium battery incidents have occurred in recent years, including a lithium-ion battery fire that occurred less than two months ago on an airplane in Chicago. Flight attendants used extinguishers on an overhead bag that was smoking. The bag was removed from the airplane and placed on the ramp, where it then caught fire. The fire apparently started from a spare laptop battery being carried in the bag.

In these cases, the batteries were not on, nor even in computers. The things are dangerous.