Texas to Provide Online 'Bordercams' 730
Dr_Barnowl writes "The BBC reports that Texas intends to erect a network of online webcams at its border to Mexico. The intention is apparently to use viewers as a kind of distributed processing network, with a free phone number to report border-jumpers." From the article: "'A stronger border is what Americans want and it's what our security demands and that is what Texas is going to deliver,' Mr Perry said. The cameras will cost $5m (£2.7m) to install and will be trained on sections of the 1,000-mile (1,600km) border known to be favoured by illegal immigrants " Hey, it's working for Britain, right?
Don't Laugh (was Re:Feature request for v1.1) (Score:3, Interesting)
I give you, the next generation of border security enhancements [bbc.co.uk]. Note where this set-up is located.
While we're talking about illegal immigration... (Score:5, Interesting)
It may be noted (for those unfamiliar with the region's history/politics) that India has faced a considerable inflow of illegal immigrants from Bangladesh for more than a decade [wikipedia.org]. Moreover, unlike India-Bangladesh relations are not benign as the US-Mexico relations currently seem to be, with a number of alleged fundamentalist religious organizations from Pakistan using the porous border to carry out terrorist activities on Indian soil.
While the world's attention has been focused on the Israeli security barrier sealing off the West Bank, India has been building a far longer fence to keep out Islamic militants, thwart cross-border smuggling and stop human trafficking.
More than 1,300 miles of the barrier has been erected in the six years since building began. Snaking through jungles, rivers and the villages of five states, Delhi's floodlit, 12ft double fence packed with razor wire will render India a fortress against her neighbour.
This is not intended as flamebait, nor as a political rant. Just thought it might be useful to look at the steps other countries have been taking to combat unapproved/illegal immigration into their borders...probably from more hostile neighbors.
I for one think each piece of technology has it's own place where it works well. Just because we have the technology to stream live video via the intarw3b doesn't mean it can replace a relatively low-cost hard barrier (agreed though that the FTA claims this is a temporary solution).
Re:Slight Difference (Score:2, Interesting)
The moral of the story here ladies and gents, is that its fine to spy on your neighbours, but not upon your family.
If Texas tried to spy on its citizens the same way that Britain does (not that I'm saying that Brits necessarily mind the camera), the Texans would blow them away with 20 gauge shotguns.
Demonstably incorrect. Texas already has cameras in public, and already has legislation allowing for secret camera locations.
Sorry, your going to have to find another state for your hard-man scenarios. Texans rolled over as quickly & quietly as the brits did.
Re:Tags: redneck xenophobia (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Tags: redneck xenophobia (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The Newer Colossus (Score:2, Interesting)
If you are worried about deficits, talk to George W. about his new, very expensive, Department of Homeland Security. Or the billions of dollars spent per year keeping military in Iraq.
-matthew
Thats fine and dandy.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Why arent they putting camera's on the borders to Canada? Seeing as how putting troops on the US / Mex border are under the guise of nation security even though the 9/11 terrorists crossed from Canada....Canada's border is bigger and less secure. The US Govt led by Republicans is about as racist as it gets. No I'm not Mexican but have been best friends with mainly Mexican Americans and it pisses me off to see this shit happening right in front of our faces.
Pointless waste of, well, everything! (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's not forget that not one, NOT ONE terrorist has EVER been caught crossing the US-Mexican border. However, the potential LAX bomber was caught trying to cross over into the US from Canada (turns steely glare directly north).
According to the Washington Post [washingtonpost.com], the US has a laughingly low number of border patrol agents on the northern border.
From TFA: "The United State posts more than five agents per mile across our southern border. By contrast, we post less than one agent every five miles across our northern border. What's more, as the United States has cut off urban crossing points in places such as El Paso and San Diego, it has forced many illegal immigrants to go through the Arizona desert -- a brutal journey, particularly for someone with no knowledge of the terrain. Would-be terrorists coming from Canada are not only less likely to be caught, they are less likely to die along the way.
There also happen to be many more potential jihadists in Canada. Unlike Mexico, with its negligible Arab and Muslim population, Canada in recent decades has welcomed large numbers of immigrants from the Middle East. And while the vast majority are law-abiding, Canadian authorities estimate that roughly 50 terrorist groups operate in the country. In their study, Leiken and Brooke identify three suspected terrorists who have tried to enter the United states from Canada, including Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian native arrested in December 1999 on his way to blow up Los Angeles International Airport."
I love my country, but seriously, this is just so out of hand now. To paraphrase The Talking Heads: "We're on a road to nowhere."
Re:Slight Difference (Score:3, Interesting)
You're not aware because you're not paying attention.
* Dallas has them [kxan.com]
* Austin has them [austinchronicle.com]
* The police have allready been caught [blogspot.com] for selling footage from the (now allegedly not recording, but still present) Deep Ellum cameras.
And the thing is, while UT had to publish the locations, that requirement no longer exists [blogspot.com] for street CCTV.
They could be installing hundreds of cameras - and wouldn't have to tell you. If you're Texan, then presume you're being watched.
Xenophobe? (Score:3, Interesting)
Just looking at a report on the Center for Immigrant Studies website http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalcoverage.h
Re:also, for further reference... (Score:2, Interesting)
There's a reasonable expectation that the bits you cover with clothes are of limits, so you get to decide which bits of your person are on public display. Similarly, you don't have the right to remove the burkha of a devout Muslim. Hell, that's the main purpose of clothing.
But if something can be seen without extraordinary effort (such as your upskirt camera), and you do it in public, you shouldn't expect it to be secret.
Re:There is a key difference (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:also, for further reference... (Score:3, Interesting)
The U.S. isn't quite as bad as some other countries in this regard: there are places (I think Canada is one of them) where you can sit down at a word processor or notebook and write yourself some "child porn," even if it's never distributed and no children are ever involved. In the U.S., we've pretty clearly come down on the side of written erotica as being protected speech regardless of the ages of the characters, although simulated/animated porn is more vague (see Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition [cornell.edu]).
Re:The Newer Colossus (Score:3, Interesting)
The industry with the highest number of illegals is farming.. where 27% of the work force is estimated to be illegal. Which means 73% of those doing that work are American citizens.
Americans are willing to do the work. Only 20% of our population has an education higher than a high school education. Those 80% of people work in manufacturing, service, retail, etc. These are the people who often work for minimum wage, and who have the highest unemployment rate (as you gain more education, the unemployment rate goes down). They will take whatever job they can get. (I should know.. my mother was poor too.. she worked on a farm picking oranges in Florida... she was an american citizen.. in fact, our family line dates back to the Mayflower.)
The problem isn't American citizens.. the problem is employers who want to exploit illegal immigrants. They want to pay them shit and exploit these people because they are vulnerable.
Illegal immigration is a problem. It drains state budgets.. Remember, the federal government is allowed to run a deficit.. the states are not. The states have strained budgets as it is and have (drastically in some cases) cut services for citizens. They (the local governments) cannot afford to pay for illegal immigrants.. they have a hard enough time paying for services for their own citizens.
They fill our federal (and sometimes states) jails (not for being here illegally, but for serious criminal offenses).. Lookup the percentage of illegals in federal prison for murder, rape, etc.. The numbers are far higher than you would expect for 11 million people.
The biggest opponents to stopping illegal immigrants are employers and Mexico... Mexico calls those who leave their country "National Heros". The 20 Billion they send back each year exceeds the budget for many Mexican states. Their border patrol holds meetings at the border to educate border crossers on how to get across the border, not get caught, and find a job in America.
They absolutely are a problem.
Re:also, for further reference... (Score:2, Interesting)
Texas Inmates... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:There is a key difference (Score:3, Interesting)
I grew up working alongside illegal aliens most from Mexico but Central America too. Their work ethic is consistently head and shoulders better than most Americans, my proof is my own eyes. The proof is employers are going out their way to hire them, yes because they are cheap but also because they will put in a hard days work for not a lot of money. Same is true of most people coming from Asia whether they be legal or illegal.
"I also take offense at you lumping every west german into the "lazy, spoiled" category"
Its just one of those facts of life that when you grow up in a relatively affluent society, where life is pretty easy you just don't develop the same kind of work ethic you do when you have to work all day everyday just to keep a roof over your head and food on the table, and you see next door real and grinding poverty. People in affluent countries come to expect higher and higher wages for less and less work, and lots of leisure time. This worked until globalization happened, the iron and bamboo curtains came down and vast pools of cheap labor came on the market.
Americans who grew up in the depression and lived through World War II have ten times the work ethic of young people today raised on TV and video games. Older Americans appreciate the value of a dollar and they know what really hard times are like, most Americans today don't
"Money for nothing and chicks for free" really is the motto of affluent western countries today. Post World War II generations are taking what was once a very successful country and running it in to the ground because they have no work ethic or maybe ethics period. They just expect to get rich whether they do anything to justify it or not. So now America is the world's biggest debtor nation and living off a giant credit card, and a lot of young people are trust fund babies living off their parent's hard work.
"Having the prices on our agriculture, housing, food, etc. go up because we're actually paying the workers what they're worth is *not* dependance, so come up with another argument, please"
Hate to break it you but we are living under Capitalism, for better or worse, so what people are worth is what they are getting paid, its sucks but thats the law of the invisible hand. America and Western Europe are completely not competitive in a globalized world as is, thanks to high cost of living, high wages, and high health insurance costs. If you insist on giving farm workers $15 dollars an hour and Blue Cross, it will just be way cheaper to import the food from some third world country, Walmart will, people will buy it, because most people will always by the cheapest product, and most of America's farms will crater. To be even remotely competitive in a globalized world farms need workers making minimum wage or less.
Its just an unfortunate fact that globalization is going to destroy workers in affluent countries. Its going to make workers in developing countries better off than they are, but they aren't going to get rich either. I read recently in CSM that Chinese workers in China's booming Southern coastal region are in fact starting to demand higher wages and better working conditions and wage inflation is starting to set in. In the globalized world this probably means India or Bangladesh will start undercutting them and Walmart will start getting its T-shirts from them instead.
The only people that are going to get rich in the new